# The SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project: Right Fielders **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 2, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935 "2017-06-02T16:20:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/1 "2017-06-02T16:20:06Z")
The next round of the SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project is finally open for business! This time we’re doing Right Fielders. Note that the following RF’ers got elected during the first (inner circle) round: Babe Ruth Henry Aaron Stan Musial is also already in (he’s on the Baseball Reference page below): If you’d like to see past rounds of voting, please see: [Round 1: The Inner Circle](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=811859) [Round 2: Catchers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=812948&highlight=catchers) [Round 3: First Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813687) [Round 4: Second Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=815248) [Round 5: Third Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816092) [Round 6: Shortstops](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818442) [Round 7: Left Fielders](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=819884) [Round 8: Center Fielders](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=822894) Rules are simple: vote for ten, top ten candidates get elected. [Link to Baseball Reference’s JAWS page for right fielders](http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_RF.shtml) (their top players at that position using their own methodology that you don’t have any obligation to agree with). Anybody from any other league (Japanese or Negro leagues, for ex.) are also eligible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/2 "2017-06-02T16:40:54Z")
My ballot (as usual for me, in order of merit, tho for voting purposes you don’t need to emulate me). Note I timeline fairly heavily (which means more contemporary players get a boost over comparable old timers, with the 1947 color line being my rough transition point): Frank Robinson Mel Ott Roberto Clemente [small gap] Al Kaline Reggie Jackson [small gap] Tony Gwynn Ichiro Suzuki Larry Walker [gap] Dwight Evans [timeline gap] Paul Waner ```auto [just missed] Harry Heilmann Sam Crawford Sammy Sosa I have Big Frank over Ott mainly because of the ballpark effects. Yes, Ott took advantage of his home ball park (the short foul lines at the Polo Grounds) in a way that few great players ever have, and he deserves credit for that. But put him in any other park and I'm not sure he keeps all of his value (note that [his other offensive numbers](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=ottme01&year=Career&t=b&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#hmvis) were better on the road tho, tons more doubles...). Since they are otherwise razor-close, Robbie gets the top nod. I have Gwynn over Ichiro (two very very comparable players), but it's insanely close. I have no issue with giving Suzuki Japanese league credit, but Gwynn's peak is a bit more impressive to me. Larry Walker will likely suffer the fate of other Denver players (such as Todd Helton), both here and on the actual HoF ballot (as he indeed already has)...shame. At the end, I put Paul Waner over everyone else mainly because most of the data we could use to crunch defensive numbers from back then have been lost forever to time. Given the current state of the art metrics and a time machine, and he probably soars over most every contemporary with the glove. I remain a bit suspicious of Heilmann's offensive numbers. Sosa has a better peak than the other candidates for the last slot, but precious little outside his peak. ``` ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/3 "2017-06-02T16:59:12Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Larry Walker will likely suffer the fate of other Denver players (such as Todd Helton), both here and on the actual HoF ballot (as he indeed already has)…shame. I don’t have any problem with that. Their Home/Away splits clearly demonstrate inflated stats. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/4 "2017-06-02T17:35:08Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I don’t have any problem with that. Their Home/Away splits clearly demonstrate inflated stats. Except WAR is park-adjusted and he still was worth almost 70 wins. That’s not a hall of famer to you? That’s more than Tony Gwynn, and almost nobody disputes his election. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/5 "2017-06-02T18:13:46Z")
> [@ReticulatingSplines](#): > > Except WAR is park-adjusted and he still was worth almost 70 wins. That’s not a hall of famer to you? That’s more than Tony Gwynn, and almost nobody disputes his election. WAR is just one component. OPS+ is also park-adjusted, and Walker’s 141 is pretty impressive. He’s a borderline candidate…if he gets in someday, that’s ok with me. He’s not a no-doubter, that’s all. Helton is an easy no. Hall of the Very Good. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/6 "2017-06-02T19:14:49Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I don’t have any problem with that. Their Home/Away splits clearly demonstrate inflated stats. The problem (which many HoF voters are apparently emulating) is to completely cornfield away the statistical record of anybody who played in Denver, “just because” it inflates hitter’s stats. Of course it does, and nobody is denying that. But you can’t just reflexively throw the baby out with the bathwater, esp. when we have ways of adjusting for that (as the last few replies have indicated). ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/7 "2017-06-02T19:17:17Z")
Yes, the last few replies did indeed touch on that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/8 "2017-06-02T23:25:32Z")
F Robinson Ott Clemente Kaline Jackson Walker Crawford Gwynn Suzuki Winfield ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/9 "2017-06-05T12:54:54Z")
Roberto Clemente Mel Ott Frank Robinson Reggie Jackson Tony Gwynn Ichiro Al Kaline Dave Winfield I considered putting Gary Sheffield on here, as his name popped up in the BBRef JAWS list, but I can’t really say that he was an outfielder. Multipositional ballot for him, I think. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/10 "2017-06-05T17:12:31Z")
More or less in order: Frank Robinson Roberto Clemente Mel Ott Al Kaline Reggie Jackson Larry Walker Harry Heilmann Ichiro Suzuki Tony Gwynn Dave Winfield This is actually as hard ballot towards the end, and I made a lot of calls by simply giving more credit to the guy who didn’t play during the segregated era. Sorry, Sam Crawford. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/11 "2017-06-06T23:53:56Z")
Mel Ott Roberto Clemente Frank Robinson Al Kaline Reggie Jackson Larry Walker Tony Gwynn Ichiro Suzuki Harry Heilmann Paul Waner When I was growing up as a Brewers fan in the late 1970s, I hated Reggie Jackson – in part because of what I perceived as his ego, and in part because he played for the hated Yankees. But, I can’t argue with him being one of baseball’s biggest stars of the 70s, even if he likely stuck around for a few years too long. I know that Walker’s detractors point to playing in Colorado for his offensive numbers, but I always loved how he played. Plus, he had a cannon of an arm, and could [throw people out at first base](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnbxsZCp7hU) from right field. Ichiro’s batting is one-dimensional, but he’s another whom I’ve always respected, and I’m factoring in what he accomplished in Japan before coming to the States. The only thing I knew about Heilmann was his nickname, “Slug,” and the fact that he was the Hall of Fame card set for the APBA baseball game when I was in high school. Looking at his stats and other info, he had a pretty impressive run as a hitter – 10 straight seasons of hitting .320 or better, with four batting titles. Waner is another about whom I knew little. He hit .336 as a rookie, hit .300 thirteen times, won 3 batting titles, and was in the top 5 of MVP voting (winning once) four times. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/12 "2017-06-06T23:59:29Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I considered putting Gary Sheffield on here, as his name popped up in the BBRef JAWS list, but I can’t really say that he was an outfielder. Multipositional ballot for him, I think. When Sheffield pouted his way out of Milwaukee, accusing the team of racism for moving him to third base in order to start Bill Spiers at shortstop, I soured on the guy. That said, he was very young at that time, and he may well have matured into a respectable person, but that’s the enduring image that’s stuck in my mind for 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/13 "2017-06-07T13:48:31Z")
Sheffield was always kind of an ass, but oh well. He helped a team win a World Series and won a lot of games. He didn’t make my list because he’s simply not good enough. His statistics look as good as Mel Ott or Harry Heilmann or whomever, but it’s an illusion of context because they came in an extremely hitting-heavy era, and have to be offset a little by his lack of defensive value. Sheffield and Suzuki are about even in terms of career WAR, but I wholeheartedly endorse Suzuki and not Sheffield because 1. I think the fact Suzuki was a NPB superstar and didn’t come to MLB until he was 28 has to be considered. 2. In part connected to that, Suzuki had a higher peak. Ichiro had years where BB-ref credits him with 9.1 and 7.7 WAR, both seasons better than any that Sheffield had. Sheffield would not be the worst player ever elected to the real HOF, and wouldn’t be the worst player elected to THIS HOF, but he’s one of those guys where I struggle to come up with a reason why he has to be on my list. IF you just go by analytical stuff, well, why not Vladdy Guerrero or Dwight Evans or a bunch of other guys? At least with Ichiro you have the impact he had on bringing Asian position players over to MLB, his MVP Award, his holding the season hits record, his profane All Star game speeches, stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/14 "2017-06-07T20:35:03Z")
Mel Ott Roberto Clemente Frank Robinson Tony Gwynn Ichiro Suzuki Paul Waner Al Kaline Reggie Jackson Tony Oliva Sam Crawford Reggie always seemed more of a “second DH” than a third outfielder, but he did play most of his games in RF, so he gets the nod. Maybe it’s because Tony starred in the first MLB game I ever attended and was at his peak around then, but Oliva seems to be underrated (if not forgotten) when the greats are discussed. Tiebreaker for “Wahoo” Sam Crawford was his nickname. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/15 "2017-06-07T21:24:35Z")
> [@Sternvogel](#): > > Maybe it’s because Tony starred in the first MLB game I ever attended and was at his peak around then, but Oliva seems to be underrated (if not forgotten) when the greats are discussed. Interesting point; Olivia was in his twilight when I first started following baseball, so I never really knew a lot about him; I’d agree that his name isn’t much mentioned when the stars of the 1960s are discussed today. Looking at his stats on [Baseball Reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zcm4oS9IaM), it looks like he has 8 very good seasons ('64-'71), which included three batting titles, and two second-place finishes in MVP voting. But, they also only give him a WAR of 6+ in three seasons, and it sounds like injuries cut short his productivity. And, looking at his “similarity scores,” he comes out most similar to several guys who are in the “Hall of Very Good” – Carl Furillo, Gus Bell, Andy Pafko, and Pedro Guerrero. I’ve been re-reading Bill James’ “Historical Baseball Abstract” (the 2001 version), and he ranks Oliva at #21 among right fielders. That said: you like who you like. 😃 Hell, I very nearly put Gorman Thomas on my center fielder list; I know he really has no business being listed in the top 50 center fielders, much less the top 10, but I loved the guy. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/16 "2017-06-07T21:35:53Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Looking at his stats on [Baseball Reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zcm4oS9IaM), Clipboard fail! The above link actually went to a Youtube clip of a 1980s Volkswagen commercial. It’s a long story. 😃 [Tony Oliva at Baseball Reference.com](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/olivato01.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/17 "2017-06-08T13:55:06Z")
Frank Robinson Roberto Clemente Mel Ott Al Kaline Tony Gwynn Reggie Jackson Larry Walker Ichiro Suzuki Harry Heilmann Shoeless Joe Jackson This might have been the toughest call yet. Shoeless Joe makes my ballot because he didn’t get voted in on the LF ballot and apparently played enough RF to be listed as one on BBRef. I do feel weird leaving Dave Winfield off, but after looking at his stats he didn’t have as many MVP caliber seasons as I would have thought. Really considered Vlad, Dewey, Sosa, and Sheffield, too. As an aside, the guy ranked higher than I would have ever imagined on the BBRef JAWS list is #28, Jack Clark. Looking at his numbers, I think he’s a guy who was just valued differently based on his era. Teams today would kill to have a guy with those stats in RF. His OPS was consistently outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-project-right-fielders/787935/18 "2017-06-10T12:28:30Z")
Bumping for the weekend crowd.