# The SDMB Hall of Fame Project: Shortstops **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 6, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182 "2017-02-06T18:44:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/1 "2017-02-06T18:44:36Z")
Welcome back to the SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Project. In this round, we will be voting on Shortstops. _I never wanted to be a dancer, it’s true! I wanted to be a shortstop for the Pittsburgh Pirates. -Gene Kelly_ If you’d like to see past rounds of voting, please see: [Round 1: The Inner Circle](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=811859) [Round 2: Catchers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=812948&highlight=catchers) [Round 3: First Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813687) [Round 4: Second Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=815248) [Round 5: Third Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816092) Honus Wagner and Jackie Robinson were elected into the Inner Circle. Most of our second basemen played at least some shortstop (like Jackie Robinson above,) so if you aren’t confident if a player you want in as a shortstop should be classified as a second baseman instead, please check the last posts on the above-linked Second Basemen thread to make sure you’re not voting in someone already ensconced in the Hall. Other than players already in the hall, anyone who played a single at bat at shortstop in any Major League or the Negro Leagues is eligible, including active players. The intent of this thread is to elect ten additional shortstops to the SDMB Hall. **Every elector should strive to include ten eligible players on their ballot.** No, really. There is no shortage of great shortstops. You shouldn’t have a problem with finding ten guys. You don’t need to start looking at Luis Valbuena or Rob Picciolo to round out your ballot. Here is a list of some suggested players. Again, you are not limited to players on this list, only by positional eligibility and by players not already in the Hall. Alex Rodriguez Cal Ripken George Davis Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Luke Appling Bill Dahlen Alan Trammell Derek Jeter Barry Larkin Bobby Wallace Lou Boudreau Joe Cronin Pee Wee Reese Jack Glasscock Joe Sewell Jim Fregosi Bert Campaneris Luis Aparicio Nomar Garciaparra Joe Tinker Dave Bancroft Troy Tulowitzki Art Fletcher Miguel Tejada Hughie Jennings Vern Stephens Travis Jackson Jimmy Rollins Al Dark Tony Fernandez Phil Rizzuto Roger Peckinpaugh Rabbit Maranville Hanley Ramirez Rico Petrocelli Omar Vizquel Rafael Furcal Dave Concepcion Maury Wills George Wright John Ward Jose Reyes Leo Durocher David Eckstein I’ll let **RickJay** announce when voting ends for this round. With any luck, he won’t ban me for stepping on his toes again. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/2 "2017-02-06T20:06:02Z")
Ozzie Smith Robin Yount Cal Ripken Jr. Ernie Banks Alex Rodriguez Derek Jeter George Davis Arky Vaughan Luke Appling Alan Trammell I knew nothing about George Davis, but after reviewing his stats on Baseball Reference (where he is ranked #4 all time in JAWS), and reading up on Wikipedia, he seems to be a worthy candidate, as a great hitter and fielder. I also knew little about Arky Vaughan, but I now see that he was a really good hitter (and likely lost 3 more good-to-great seasons to WWII). Luke Appling gets credit for hitting a home run in an exhibition game at age 75. 😉 I gave Trammell my #10 spot, since I have long felt that he was a great player, who was overshadowed by (a) playing in the same era as Ozzie Smith and Cal Ripken, and (b) being inextricably linked with Lou Whitaker, which I sometimes sense blunts some analysts’ views of the two of them as individual players. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/3 "2017-02-06T21:58:12Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I also knew little about Arky Vaughan, but I now see that he was a really good hitter (and likely lost 3 more good-to-great seasons to WWII). I wondered how much time Vaughan lost during the war, but apparently he wasn’t in the military at all. He retired after the 1943 season after a [dispute with Leo Durocher.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arky_Vaughan#Clash_of_personalities) He made a brief comeback after Durocher was suspended for associating with gamblers. A few years later, he [drowned in a boating accident.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arky_Vaughan#Personal_life) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/4 "2017-02-06T22:08:18Z")
Derek Jeter Alex Rodriquez Cal Ripken Alan Trammell Ozzie Smith Ernie Banks Barry Larkin Robin Yount Luke Appling Arky Vaughan ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/5 "2017-02-06T22:14:51Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I wondered how much time Vaughan lost during the war, but apparently he wasn’t in the military at all. He retired after the 1943 season after a [dispute with Leo Durocher.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arky_Vaughan#Clash_of_personalities) He made a brief comeback after Durocher was suspended for associating with gamblers. > > A few years later, he [drowned in a boating accident.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arky_Vaughan#Personal_life) Ahhh, very interesting; I had no idea. When i saw him missing the '44-'46 seasons, I just assumed it was due to military service. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/6 "2017-02-07T00:28:54Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I’ll let **RickJay** announce when voting ends for this round. With any luck, he won’t ban me for stepping on his toes again. I appreciate the help! Alex Rodriguez Ozzie Smith Cal Ripken Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Ernie Banks Derek Jeter Pop Lloyd Luke Appling Barry Larkin I feel bad leaving off Alan Trammell. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/7 "2017-02-07T02:07:11Z")
Decided to go with ARod as a SS here, not as a multipositional guy. Did have a plurality of appearances at short, and his move off of the position was not primarily determined by manager choice, but by being blocked at short by another player (Jeter), at least for a few years (note tho that his 3B stats are quite a bit worse than his ones at short). Quite a few people moved off the position in their 30’s (Ripken/Young/Banks). [once again in order of merit] Alex Rodriguez Cal Ripken, Jr. Robin Yount Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Alan Trammell Barry Larkin Derek Jeter Luke Appling Arky Vaughan No real agonizing decisions for the 10th spot this time around. George Davis is listed as [4th in BBRef’s JAWS rankings](http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_SS.shtml), but contemporary Wagner pretty much puts him to shame. Take just 15-20% off of his WAR totals and he falls out of the top 10, and would still require me to put a lot of stock into very iffy interpretations of some rather ancient defensive numbers. Bill Dahlen same thing. Honorable mention would also include Joe Cronin, Lou Boudreau, and Pee Wee Reese; Appling & Vaughan, near contemporaries to all 3, are pretty clearly superior, all around. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/8 "2017-02-07T03:49:55Z")
Cal Ripken Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Luke Appling Alan Trammell Derek Jeter Barry Larkin Dave Concepcion ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/9 "2017-02-07T13:10:27Z")
Cal Ripken, Jr. Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Lou Boudreau Alex Rodriguez Omar Vizquel Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Luke Appling Phil Rizzuto Phil is on my list in place of another Yankees shortstop whom I hold a grudge against because he should have moved to third or the outfield a few years into his career, but whose team and exceptional ability to fully extend himself while diving for a ball that a competent shortstop would have been able to snag without moving his feet meant that he was on every highlight reel for years. I don’t think that guy should be a unanimous selection. Also, Phil did the play-by-play segment for Meat Loaf’s Paradise by the Dashboard Light, and if that doesn’t deserve a Hall of Fame induction, I don’t know what does. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/10 "2017-02-07T15:19:00Z")
Derek Jeter should have been an outfielder from the day he started - he was very, very fast and his poor reaction time would have been more easily made up there - but whaddya gonna do? If you can’t vote for a one way player then you can’t have Ted Williams. I still feel bad leaving off Alan Trammell but I am quite convinced John Henry Lloyd was one of the best shortstops who ever lived. Lloyd was called the “black Wagner” and when told that, Honus Wagner said he was honored that someone would compare him to Pop Lloyd. Honus Wagner was an incredible ballplayer, absolutely the greatest shortstop of all time and the greatest player in the National League at his peak, so that comparison means a hell of a lot. A player who was two thirds as great as Honus Wagner would be a top ten shortstop. It would be like saying a Japanese League center fielder was as good as Mike Trout and then Mike Trout watching the guy play and saying “Man, I’m flattered you’re comparing me to that dude.” I find the comparison interesting because Lloyd was actually quite a lot like Wagner. They were about the same height and both broad-shouldered, strong men with big hands, both more careful about their health and conditioning than most guys were back then. Both played extremely well into their late 30s. Like Wagner, Lloyd was, for all his competitiveness, a kind, accommodating gentleman who got along with everyone. Lloyd batted lefthanded so it’s a not a perfect match but you can see why people could compare them. Pop Lloyd played for at least four teams called the “Giants.” I dunno what it was about Negro League teams but they sure loved that nickname. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/11 "2017-02-07T15:26:59Z")
Cal Ripken Alex Rodriguez Robin Yount Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Arky Vaughan Barry Larkin Derek Jeter Alan Trammell Luke Appling Sorry George Davis, you may be a WAR darling, but I never heard of you. ARod is obviously deserving, but as a Yankee hater I tried to come up with a way to leave off Jeter. Nomar had a better peak! George Davis is a guy! But, alas, I couldn’t justify it in my own mind. Yes, he should have moved over for ARod, but that’s not enough. Jeter’s a HOFer. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/12 "2017-02-07T15:31:14Z")
There’s a huge difference between a one way outfielder and a one way shortstop. You can be a great shortstop while being a mediocre hitter. You can’t even keep a job as a solely defensive left fielder. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/13 "2017-02-07T17:54:29Z")
Alex Rodriguez Cal Ripken Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Luke Appling Alan Trammell Derek Jeter Barry Larkin ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/14 "2017-02-07T19:01:28Z")
Cal Ripken Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Derek Jeter Barry Larkin Joe Cronin Pee Wee Reese Luis Aparicio ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/15 "2017-02-07T20:33:46Z")
Alex Rodriguez Cal Ripken George Davis Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Ozzie Smith Luke Appling Lou Boudreau Joe Sewell Luis Aparicio ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/16 "2017-02-07T21:24:03Z")
Alex Rodriguez Cal Ripken Robin Yount Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Alan Trammell Barry Larkin Lou Boudreau Joe Cronin Luis Aparicio ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/17 "2017-02-07T21:31:10Z")
Cal Ripken Arky Vaughan Ernie Banks Ozzie Smith Luke Appling Lou Boudreau Joe Sewell Luis Aparicio Omar Vizquel Dave Concepcion Went back and forth between Sewell and Robin Yount before choosing Joe, since Yount played shortstop for only about half his career and thus is a natural for the multi-position ballot. I knew Sewell was famous for hardly ever striking out, but his 1923-24 feat of knocking in [215 runs on a total of seven homers](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/seweljo01.shtml) is also noteworthy. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/18 "2017-02-08T15:17:11Z")
Cal Ripken Jr. Ozzie Smith Derek Jeter Ernie Banks Luis Aparicio Luke Appling Lou Boudreau Robin Yount Troy Tulowitzki Allan Trammell ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/19 "2017-02-09T17:35:22Z")
Ozzie Smith Ernie Banks Cal Ripken Jr. Alex Rodriguez Alan Trammell John Henry Lloyd Barry Larkin Arky Vaughan Luke Appling Robin Yount I wanted to leave off Barry Larkin because his questionable 1995 MVP probably pushed him over the edge in HOF voting, while Trammel (a personal favorite of mine) got screwed in the 1987 MVP vote and suffered in comparison to Larkin (WAR of 8.2 on the 1st place team, and loses to Bell with 5.0 on the 2nd place team?). But I decided I can’t hold that against him and kept him on the list. I also wanted to leave off Derek Jeter for being a smug bastard. I tried to rationalize it with the usual stuff - his defense wasn’t extraordinary, he should have moved for A-Rod, etc. Those rationalizations weren’t fully working, until I decided, you know what? This is my ballot, the guy strikes me as an arrogant prick, and I just want to punch that smarmy face every time I see it. He misses the cut. Thanks **RickJay** for tipping me off on John Henry Lloyd. As I noted in my first baseman selection of Buck Leonard, I think being universally regarded as the best ever at a position in the Negro League is worthy of the regular HOF. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182/20 "2017-02-09T18:22:01Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > If you’d like to see past rounds of voting, please see: > > [Round 5: Third Basemen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816902) This is an oopsy - maybe **RickJay** can correct it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-shortstops/779182.md?page=2)