# The SDMB Mock election. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749 "2008-01-16T16:05:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/61 "2008-01-18T22:15:35Z")
Will you take a Libertarian-America First (Libertaria First) hybrid? ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/62 "2008-01-18T23:13:52Z")
[QUOTE=Paladud] Will you take a Libertarian-America First (Libertaria First) hybrid? [/QUOTE] What would be the difference between it and the Libertarian party fronted by Liberal? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/63 "2008-01-18T23:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=Paladud] Will you take a Libertarian-America First (Libertaria First) hybrid? [/QUOTE] This will be my last post here tonight, but if you can differentiate yourself from **Liberal** , go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/64 "2008-01-19T00:44:23Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] What would be the difference between it and the Libertarian party fronted by Liberal? [/QUOTE] I apologize in advance for any incoherence. Since this is a reactive subset of libertarianism, I will do my best to respond to **Liberal’s** post: > [@Liberal](#): > > Security > > ``` > The whole purpose of government should be to secure the rights and property of its citizens. I would therefore work to strengthen all regulatory agencies that protect people from the coercion of others and eliminate those that are themselves coercive. And so I would strengthen police and military protection and courts, while minimizing social and corporate welfare programs. > > ``` Military protection will be enhanced by withdrawing US forces deployed overseas (with the exception of those in Afghanistan). Border security will also be enhanced. Otherwise agreed. > [@](#): > > Economy > > ``` > The greatest possible economic potential comes from a market that is free from coercion, which is what I mean when I use the term "free-market". A person should be free to invest as she sees fit, and free to both succeed and fail. I would therefore work toward strengthening regulations against financial fraud and strong-arm tactics of both government and industry while minimizing agencies that interfere arbitrarily in economic enterprise. > > ``` Union protections/entitlements are to be mitigated. (I’m not sure if this is implicit in **Liberal’s** quote). Otherwise agreed. > [@](#): > > Social Security and Medicare > > ``` > If you're older than twelve, you know that every presidential candidate since FDR has campaigned on promises to fix social security. I think that after sixty years and two generations, it ought to be clear by now that that can't happen. I would therefore work to eliminate government interference in people's retirement plans, other than to make it easier for them to save for it. I would put to a stop the dishonest implications that there is a trust fund established for them somewhere from which they may draw what they've put in. I will be honest and let them know that their money was spent long ago, and that their grand children are being billed for it. > > ``` Agreed. > [@](#): > > Taxes > > ``` > The founders prohibited a per capitance tax for a reason: it is a disincentive to production. I would work to eliminate the IRS, and to implement in its place a system of tariffs on imported goods. US receipts in 1990 were half what they are today. In 1980, they were only 25% of what they are today. Even so, the budget deficit is a staggering, record breaking amount. Consider those numbers when candidates promise you that they will fix social security. I believe we can eliminate enough waste and pork spending to live comfortably as a nation on a budget more like 1980 and less like today. After all, we require that families live within their means. Why shouldn't the people who govern them do the same? > > ``` Federal taxation will be a flat income tax without exemptions. Age, marital status, and number of dependents will not affect the tax rate. Said tax rate will decline as the national debt is paid off. > [@](#): > > Gay Marriage and Privacy Rights > > ``` > Consenting adults who are peaceful and honest in their dealings ought to be free to pursue their own happiness in their own way without anyone snooping or interfering in their affairs. Government should recognize any contractual commitment between two people fairly and equitably everywhere in the United States. If religions wish to sanctify and define marriages a certain way, that's fine. But religious declarations should have no bearing on the federal government, and no person should be denied any rights on account of her sexual orientation or whom she marries. > > ``` Agreed. > [@](#): > > Abortion > > ``` > The federal government has no business becoming involved in a woman's right to choose whether she will terminate her pregnancy or in whether a doctor is at fault for determing an abortion's medical necessity. But because abortion is a matter of conscience for many (including many pro-choicers), the federal government should not be in the business of subsidizing abortions. > > ``` Agreed. Now to differentiate Libertaria First: Crime and Punishment The possession of drugs and sale thereof to adults shall be legal, and all imprisoned solely for these offenses are to be freed. Said substances are to be treated in a manner analogous to alcohol today. Age of majority for all such substances is to be uniform, preferably 18. In the long run the availability of information and properly manufactured drugs will lead to an equilibrium. Some small subset of the population may suffer from tainted drugs, as some do from moonshine today. We consider incarceration for extended periods of time to border on the inhumane. Sentences of imprisonment may only be given for the more severe violent crimes, with the standard duration being for life. Lesser felonies will result in some duration of forced labor on national infrastructure. Firearms Every adult has the right to possess any non-automatic firearms. The federal government and the individual states may not keep a record of these. Possession of automatic firearms is to be heavily regulated, with a permit requiring testing for proficiency and psychological competence; the fee for such a permit shall not exceed its administrative costs. Immigration and Naturalization Libertaria First will implement prerequisites for immigration on a point system that places value on job skills, experience, education, and proficiency in English, though not all will be necessary. There will be no regional/national immigration quotas; rather, there will be a total quota, and the most qualified prospectives will be permitted to immigrate. The southern border will be secured, and deportation of illegal immigrants will begin. Birthright citizenship will be abolished. Naturalized citizens will be eligible to run for the presidency. (Note - the last point is not necessarily relevant to the platform, but rather self-serving, as I’m naturalized) Education While the government should continue to fund education in general (at least for a long transitional period), certain changes will take place. K-12 education will be changed to reflect the more successful systems in Japan and South Korea. There will be greater emphasis on mathematics at the lower levels. Social promotion (letting a failing student continue to the next grade) will be forbidden. High schools will specialize as math/science, liberal arts, and vocational skills. Any athletic activities other than standard physical education and JROTC may not be funded by the state. Although public colleges and universities are directly subsidized, the state will not provide individual loans or grants. Certain departments will be eliminated from public universities and left to the private sector - the extent has yet to be determined, but stuff like Ethnomusicology will definitely get the axe. Foreign Policy Before anything else, we will withdraw our troops from Iraq. We are not preventing a civil war, merely delaying it. We will minimize interference in foreign affairs, especially around Russia’s borders. The UN will be politely asked to relocate its headquarters. No more foreign aid, with the exception of that going to rebuild Afghanistan. Weapons may not be sold to countries other than stable liberal democracies. We will build lots of nuclear power plants and tell the Saudi theocrats to FOAD as soon as possible. We will not sign international environmental treaties. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/65 "2008-01-19T05:07:27Z")
If Priceguy is taking the Socialist banner, I suppose I will represent my own party, the Scorpion Party. We laugh at the large, cumbersome GOP elephant, for we are almost as scary & easier to feed. We are also one person so far. This frees me from having to awkwardly represent the Democrats, the Socialists, the Greens, Democracy is Freedom – Daisy, the Libertarian National Socialist Green Party, the Communists, the Royalists, the Monarchists, the Cult of Cthulhu, or perhaps most problematically, the Monster Raving Loony Party; but as an advocate of ballot fusion, I will gladly throw my support behind one of those (not actually the Cult of Cthulhu) or accept nominations from, well, anybody. I’ll be back later with actual positions. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/66 "2008-01-19T15:44:37Z")
I’m. only a Limey but can I stand for “Lets Have a Party” My Manifesto is basically LETS HAVE A PARTY. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/67 "2008-01-19T15:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] If Priceguy is taking the Socialist banner [/QUOTE] I’m not, so feel free to grab it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/68 "2008-01-19T19:13:24Z")
I’ve never heard of The Moderate Independent Party, so I did some searching. Are you suggesting that I represent [this group](http://www.moderateindependent.com/), **WhatExit** , or did you just make up that name thinking it reflecting the tenor of my postings on political subjects? If the former, I’ll need to do some reading before I commit. I’d be happy to participate-- just trying to find the right slot. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/69 "2008-01-19T19:31:27Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I’ve never heard of The Moderate Independent Party, so I did some searching. Are you suggesting that I represent [this group](http://www.moderateindependent.com/), **WhatExit** , or did you just make up that name thinking it reflecting the tenor of my postings on political subjects? If the former, I’ll need to do some reading before I commit. I’d be happy to participate-- just trying to find the right slot. [/QUOTE] I just made up the name, I saw you listing yourself as an independent a few times and I consider you a moderate. I never heard of that group. Was that website a joke site? I think it may have been… [QUOTE=them] ODD FACT OF THE ISSUE: Did you know 100% of Americans are extreme lefty liberals? [/QUOTE] Jim ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/70 "2008-01-19T20:10:23Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] …I consider you a moderate. [/QUOTE] Hey, I though personal insults were limited to the BBQ Pit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/71 "2008-01-19T20:41:43Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Hey, I though personal insults were limited to the BBQ Pit. 🙂 [/QUOTE] 🙂 Please define your own position and party. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/72 "2008-01-19T23:47:35Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I just made up the name, I saw you listing yourself as an independent a few times and I consider you a moderate. I never heard of that group. Was that website a joke site? I think it may have been… [/QUOTE] I hadn’t heard of it either. I just knew that I’ve converged with John on more issues than anyone on the board, so offered before. ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/73 "2008-01-20T01:12:49Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Was that website a joke site? I think it may have been… [/QUOTE] I’ll let you know, I just donated $50 by Paypal and expect to receive my first newsletter in the mail shortly. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/74 "2008-01-20T22:49:40Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] I’m not, so feel free to grab it. [/QUOTE] OK, I guess I’m Socialist #3. Story of my life. And I was ready to be the candidate of a party with a name like “Reconstruction & Justice - SCORPION.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/75 "2008-01-21T14:20:48Z")
The second debate on the [Economy, Health care, Social Security & Poverty](http://208.100.26.199/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9389971#post9389971) has been started. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/76 "2008-01-22T16:10:45Z")
I think I’m going to pass on throwing my hat in the ring, **What Exit**. I applaud your effort, but it looks like there are more candidates than non-candidates in the debates, and adding one more will make that even worse. My positions, except on Iraq and some other foreign policy areas, are close enough to **Sam Stone’s** that I wouldn’t be added that much anyway. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/77 "2008-01-22T16:18:10Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think I’m going to pass on throwing my hat in the ring, **What Exit**. I applaud your effort, but it looks like there are more candidates than non-candidates in the debates, and adding one more will make that even worse. My positions, except on Iraq and some other foreign policy areas, are close enough to **Sam Stone’s** that I wouldn’t be added that much anyway. [/QUOTE] Sounds good, I hope you will at least enter the debate as a questioner. I always appreciate your posts on political debates. Jim ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/78 "2008-01-23T01:46:57Z")
Well, I’m in the middle of Hilaire Belloc’s _The Servile State_, in which he insists that he’s not a Socialist, & I’m wondering if anyone’s going to find my moralistic Distributive stance intelligible as “Socialism,” so I’ll just be the Scorpion for right now. Still don’t have a platform drafted, been hard to make myself sit down & type. But I finally got a sort of quick speech up for the first two debates, yay! And yes, I very nearly decided to throw up my hands & support the Scientific Results Party or whatever it’s called. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/79 "2008-01-24T02:09:44Z")
I have started the third debate: [The SDMB mock election Debate #3: Global Warming, Energy Policy, Green Issues & Tech.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9400614#post9400614) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749/80 "2008-01-24T02:28:47Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] Since **matt\_mcl** ’s got the NDP party down, can I run for the Green Party of Canada? [/QUOTE] Two of my favourite Dopers running for two of the most interesting parties. But every election day I face the same dilemma. Orange! Green! Orange! Green! Who to choose? So… how does everyone feel about solar housing, energy independence, and electrified transport? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-mock-election/433749.md?page=5)