# The SDMB Musical Lover's Salon and Debating Society Presents: State Fair (1945) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 1, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242 "2004-11-01T03:21:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/1 "2004-11-01T03:21:33Z")
[_ **State Fair** _](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038116/combined) Directed by Walter Lang Starring: Jeanne Craine, Dick Haymes, Dana Andrews and Vivian Blaine. I am an unabashed Rodgers & Hammerstein fan. I used to get strange looks when I had really long hair, walking down the street in a black t-shirt, singing “I’m as corny as Kansas in August, high as a flag on the fourth of July.” I was originally going to pick _Oklahoma!_, for the reasons I outlined in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274987) thread. However, as I thought more about it, I came to realize that _State Fair_ presented a more interesting look at the development of the film musical. Oscar Hammerstein II had a new idea for the musical. With partner Jerome Kern, he wrote a play based on Edna Ferber’s novel _Showboat_, and created one of the earliest instances of an “integrated” musical, where song, dance and plot were one. This idea reached apogee in 1943 when Hammerstein and his new partner Richard Rodgers wrote _Oklahoma!_, which in addition to becoming one of the most successful Broadway plays ever written (running almost the entire decade), became the first musical to sport fully integrated musical numbers. (We have discussed this before in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279615) thread.) In 1955, the film version would be released, marking the first filmed fully integrated musical. In 1945, Twentieth Century Fox wanted to make _Oklahoma!_, which they either couldn’t or wouldn’t do (I’m not sure which) as it was still running on Broadway. Instead, they hired Rodgers & Hammerstein to do something the pair would only do once in their career: write a score and lyrics directly for a film. Fox decided to remake Philip Stong’s novel “State Fair” in Technicolor. Fox had already adapted the book twelve years earlier as a starring vehicle for Janet Gaynor. All these factors combined produced a strange beast. Rodgers & Hammerstein were writing the songs for someone else’s existing adaptation, rather than having created their own play from the source material (as would be the norm for the rest of their career). In addition, the team had almost no creative control over the film, as they were simply being paid to write lyrics and music. Picked to star were hardboiled-noir antihero Dana Andrews and starlet Jeanne Crain (whom **Eve** obitufied [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=229395)). The film was directed by Walter Lang, a Fox director of big Technicolor musicals of the 40’s and 50’s, including _The King And I (Rodgers & Hammerstein), My Mother Wore Tights, Tin Pan Alley, There’s No Business Like Showbusiness, The Little Princess_ and _Cheaper By The Dozen_, with Jeanne Crain. I picked the film because it represents a fascinating intermediate. The storyline is rather banal (though enjoyable), exhibiting outdated gender politics as well as contrivances of plot (falling in love and deciding to get married after three days, etc). The film follows a standard film musical structure, plot interrupted by random song and dance numbers, but the oddity is that the random song and dance numbers are (or at least attempt to be) integral to the plot. The film has an earnesty (a R&H trademark) that you can’t help but like. The whimsical fair scenes, the ridiculously choregraphed dance numbers. This is a movie that had the Depression-era feel good musical as its base with the innovativeness of Rodgers & Hammerstein driving it. Although some of the songs are top-notch (It Might As Well Be Spring is an all-time favorite of mine), the inanity of others (I Owe Ioway) along with their over-the-top orchestration and delivery produce a garish, Grand Guignol caricature of American musicals. One is reminded of the Iron Curtain musicals, featuring large groups of the younger proletariat, excitedly dancing about in empty factories and extolling in song the virtues of state-owned means of production and the acumen of the central planners. There is something strange yet compelling about watching a film whose sole source of dramatic tension is an ill pig. The running gag with Donald Meek and the overly-brandied mincemeat is mildly amusing, but overall, the film is shockingly dull. The bizarre counterpoint to this is provided by the eminently watchable quality lent the film by the songs. Compared to the later musicals Rodgers & Hammerstein would produce, this is almost unrecognizable as the genuine article. Yet the creative genius of the pair still manages to shine through, presenting an odd chimerical intermediate in the development of the film musical. Above all, the film is warm and nostalgic and it makes you feel good watching it. Isn’t that the most important thing?😉 ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/2 "2004-11-01T13:25:29Z")
Well, **Ilsa** , you write a hell of an OP. Unfortunately, I hated the movie. Nah, “hate” is way too strong. I sat there for the entire time with a dropped jaw and “wtf” expression on my face. I don’t “get” Rodgers and Hammerstein. Warm-fuzzy-nostalgic? Uh, no, not really – because I have never lived in the same world as Mssrs. R&H. (And, in the interest of full disclosure, let me state that I lived in Iowa for two years and have actually been to the Iowa State Fair three times.) I’ll give you **Oklahoma!** – because of the dancing. I loathe **South Pacific**. I always watch **The Sound of Music** , but not out of any actual fondness for it. I’ve only seen **Carousel** once. I like **The King and I** okay. I just can’t buy their … wholesomeness. It’s not a matter of my insisting on gritty realism in a movie musical (sez the woman who chose **Neptune’s Daughter** ); I just prefer a little style, a little pizzazz – otherwise, what’s the point? I’ll take **Seven Brides for Seven Brothers** – also a nice wholesome bit of Americana – over a dozen **State Fairs** , because the dancing is so amazing. So my real beef with the movie is “no dancing.” Perhaps it’s time for us to tackle that issue, fellow Salonians. Unfortunately, though, I’ve got to get to work. I think what my argument is going to center on is the visual element of movies. If it’s just about singing, you don’t need to make a movie, you can just put out a soundtrack. Movies need to be visual – and nothing adds visuals like a nice big dance sequence, right? Damn, I really do have to get to work – more later. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/3 "2004-11-01T13:26:22Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Above all, the film is warm and nostalgic and it makes you feel good watching it. Isn’t that the most important thing?😉 Maybe. I watched it a few years back and had been surprised by how dull it was. Still, since there was nothing obnoxious or offensive about it, I watched it again this month. I was disappointed by the general lack of a plot and the blandness of many of the songs. ( As a general rule, I prefer quirky lyrics to bland universal ones. ) The picture of a State Fair visit from long before I was born was kind of fun to view but the overall movie was kind of bland and forgettable. ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/4 "2004-11-01T16:48:05Z")
The OP expertly placed this movie in the appropriate context of a stop along the progression and evolution of the musical. It was an experiment to integrate song into story structure, but suffered from the lack of inspirational material. As _ **Twickster** _ pointed out, \*\*Seven Brides for Seven Brothers \*\* surpasses this one in pure entertainment value, most especially because of the dancing but also the source material was intriguing. I feel that R&H tried to push this one too much, ending up with occasional magic but a general over-the-top feel. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/5 "2004-11-01T22:10:15Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I just can’t buy their … wholesomeness. It’s not a matter of my insisting on gritty realism in a movie musical (sez the woman who chose Neptune’s Daughter); I just prefer a little style, a little pizzazz – otherwise, what’s the point? I’ll take Seven Brides for Seven Brothers – also a nice wholesome bit of Americana – over a dozen State Fairs, because the dancing is so amazing. So my real beef with the movie is “no dancing.” It’s real. Rodgers & Hammerstein wrote some of the most genuinely earnest songs ever. It’s fluffy crap like _Neptune’s Daughter_ (no offense to your choice, I still enjoyed it, being a sucker for musicals like I am) that give film musicals a bad name. As for _Seven Brides For Seven Brothers_, since when did wholesome Americana include rape fantasies? 😉 I guess I will just have to disagree with you at a fundamental level about the wholesomeness of R&H; it strikes me as the real thing. I get an overwhelming feeling of honesty from their work. Try watching _Carousel_ again. (Not to mention, they danced in the movie! Some. Okay, just a little . But it was still dancing.) > [@Eureka](#): > > ( As a general rule, I prefer quirky lyrics to bland universal ones. ) I do too, but I feel I have to point out that _It Might As Well Be Spring_ is the very definition of lyrical quirkiness, IMHO. > [@Rodgers & Hammerstein](#): > > I am starry eyed and vaguely discontented, like a nightingale without a song to sing > O why should I have spring fever, when it isn’t even spring? Starry eyed and vaguely discontented? Stopped me cold when I heard that line. > [@TwoTrouts](#): > > I feel that R&H tried to push this one too much, ending up with occasional magic but a general over-the-top feel. My point exactly. Keep in mind, I didn’t pick the film because it was good, I picked it because it was interesting considered in context. (I also enjoyed it, but that’s beside the point :p) ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/6 "2004-11-01T22:18:36Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > It’s real. Rodgers & Hammerstein wrote some of the most genuinely earnest songs ever. I’m not at all impugning their sincerity – I’m just saying I don’t share their worldview. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/7 "2004-11-01T22:27:41Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I’m not at all impugning their sincerity – I’m just saying I don’t share their worldview. Ah, okay. Well, they call me a cockeyed optimist, naive and incurably green. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/8 "2004-11-01T22:28:33Z")
😛 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/9 "2004-11-05T03:15:03Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > I do too, but I feel I have to point out that _It Might As Well Be Spring_ is the very definition of lyrical quirkiness, IMHO. I guess I wouldn’t have thought of that song as particularly quirky, though it really is exceptionally lovely. I haven’t rewatched “State Fair” since the early 90s, shortly after I first saw “Laura.” I’ll admit to a bit of a crush on Dana Andrews after that one, so I searched out a few of his other movies (which, in retrospect, was a mistake, since he really wasn’t very good). There are two R&H musicals that were worth watching for the sake of one song, to me. One of them is “Carousel” for the spectacular “If I Loved You.” The other is “State Fair” for the lovely “It Might as Well be Spring.” Otherwise, I can’t recommend either. But I still enjoyed your OP! ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/10 "2004-11-05T04:42:42Z")
Did you catch _While The City Sleeps_? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/11 "2004-11-05T13:34:36Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Did you catch _While The City Sleeps_? No. Should I? I thought he was great in “Laura,” but have always had the impression that it was the definite highlight of his career. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-state-fair-1945/272242/12 "2004-11-06T03:21:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > No. Should I? I thought he was great in “Laura,” but have always had the impression that it was the definite highlight of his career. Hey, a film noir directed by Fritz Lang, starring Dana Andrews? Sounds good to me.