# The SDMB NCAA thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** basketball-nba\ **Created:** [September 14, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958 "2016-09-14T19:39:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/243 "2021-07-07T14:27:08Z")
Sorry about the multiple consecutive posts - what’s the time limit on editing posts here? > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Meanwhile, Florida State QB McKenzie Milton and Miami quarterback D’Eriq King have [gone into business for themselves…representing other college athletes’ NIL interests.](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31742166/florida-state-mckenzie-milton-miami-deriq-king-join-nil-platform-dreamfield) Up until now, an athlete could not go into business for themselves if they used their “name, photograph, appearance, or athletics reputation” to promote it. > > Okay, it has only been six days, but I am a little surprised that there haven’t been reports of big-name schools’ athletes getting licensing deals from local boosters. Spoke too soon; a Miami booster is “licensing” every scholarship player on Miami’s team (sorry, walk-ons) $500/month “to advertise his gyms on social media.” (I put that in quotes as I don’t think actually advertising the gyms is a requirement - nor should it have to be.) Also, [a barbecue restaurant in Fayetteville is sponsoring the Arkansas offensive line](https://twitter.com/ESPNMcGee/status/1412469622503247874/photo/1), but this appears to be legitimate advertising. I can only imagine how many people have looked up this restaurant since the announcement. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/244 "2021-07-18T17:00:52Z")
This one may cross the line: The M Den - the “official retail store” of the University of Michigan - will now allow people to order customized jerseys with the names and numbers of current players, and that player will be paid a certain amount for each of “his” jerseys sold. On the one hand, The M Den’s website says, “Every purchase made through the M Den results in direct support to University of Michigan Athletic programs,” so there is a direct link between the store and the school. On the other hand - and this is probably more important - does the store receive any “benefits” other than being the “official store” of the athletics department? It doesn’t appear that the store receives any tangible benifit from the school that can be passed along to the players, so it’s not “pay for play” by any means. Now, if the school were to suddenly say, “We’ll pay you X for each jersey you sell in which you have to pay one of our current athletes,” then it’s a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/245 "2021-07-18T17:38:50Z")
Unless all the players signed contracts giving the store the right to do that, I don’t see how they can legally do that. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/246 "2021-07-18T19:05:33Z")
Yeah, I don’t see how they can unilaterally do that. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/247 "2021-07-18T22:14:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Unless all the players signed contracts giving the store the right to do that, I don’t see how they can legally do that. Apparently, currently about 60 Michigan players are signed, and I am assuming they cannot put the others’ names/numbers on jerseys yet. [Full story from ESPN](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31834394/michigan-athletics-official-retail-store-partners-players-sell-jerseys-names-back) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/248 "2021-08-04T02:14:59Z")
Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! How about _these_ apples? > **[Report drills NCAA on equity, calls for combined Final Four](https://apnews.com/article/sports-college-sports-basketball-march-madness-mens-college-basketball-89476797aabda139b3d30e6a4e0ad227)** > > A law firm hired to investigate gender equity concerns at NCAA championship events says the association has not lived up to its own standards. > [@](#): > > A law firm hired by the NCAA to investigate equity issues released a 113-page report that includes a series of recommendations, including holding the men’s and women’s Final Fours at the same site and offering financial incentives to schools to improve their women’s basketball programs. > > But it ripped the NCAA for falling into an entrenched approach to the women’s game, preventing its growth and leading to an embarassing lack of equality with the men. > > “With respect to women’s basketball, the NCAA has not lived up to its stated commitment to ‘diversity, inclusion and gender equity among its student-athletes, coaches and administrators,’” the report found. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/249 "2021-08-04T03:22:24Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > A law firm hired by the NCAA to investigate equity issues released a 113-page report that includes a series of recommendations, including holding the men’s and women’s Final Fours at the same site and offering financial incentives to schools to improve their women’s basketball programs. The “financial incentives” consist of, over a ten-year period, taking half of the money that goes to the conferences based on how well their teams do in the men’s tournament and giving it to conferences based on how well their teams do in the women’s tournament. (Right now, in the men’s tournament, it’s one “share” for each team in each of the previous six tournaments, plus one for each game won in those six tournaments outside of the Final Fours.) One thing made me laugh: the author is under the impression that fans in the city that can’t get tickets to the men’s games will “settle” on getting tickets for the women’s games. Very few people are going to be in the host city expecting to be able to buy a ticket to any men’s game, and those that do aren’t the kind of people that would settle to shell out for a ticket to a women’s Final Four game. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2021, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/250 "2021-10-27T01:10:48Z")
Second report now available: > **[Second NCAA gender equity report shows spending disparities](https://apnews.com/article/sports-college-sports-basketball-college-basketball-womens-college-basketball-64de02a3a7d3445ed73465c7c668317d)** > > The NCAA spends more on average on male athletes than female ones, particularly when it comes to the “mere handful of championships” viewed as revenue sources, according to a new report. The law firm hired by the NCAA to investigate equity issues... ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/251 "2021-10-28T18:36:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Second report now available: So remember, don’t call them the Final Four, the Frozen Four, or the College World Series; start calling them the Men’s Final Four, the Men’s Frozen Four, and the Men’s College World Series…and never mind that it is possible, albeit highly unlikely, for women to compete in each of them as well (while the Women’s Final Four et al. must be all-female). I noticed one thing that wasn’t mentioned; there are more women invited to the Division I Swimming & Diving Championships than men. If they are really interested in “championships equity,” shouldn’t they be the same? Speaking of Swimming & Diving, I have a feeling the main reason they don’t hold the men’s and women’s championships together now is, either they would have to have one on, say, Saturday-Tuesday and the other Wednesday-Saturday, which kind of defeats the purpose of holding them together (in addition to having to worry about shuffling events around if a Sunday event has someone from BYU qualified for it), or try to squeeze the whole thing into six days. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/252 "2021-11-09T22:22:28Z")
Me again…anyway, [the NCAA has released the draft version of its new Constitution](https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/governance/ncaa/constitution/NCAAGov_DraftConstitution.pdf), which will be put up for a vote at this January’s Convention, then each division will be allowed to make division-specific changes prior to its implementation on August 1. A couple of things that I noticed: First, while it does put the right of athletes to license their names/images/likenesses in print, it is equally quite clear that The Schools Cannot Pay The Athletes Any “Salary” Other Than Educational Based Benefits (tuition, room, board, books, etc.), End Of The Discussion. Second, one of the “principles” says that athletes are “matriculated, degree-seeking students.” Did anyone mention this to the One-And-Dones? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/253 "2021-11-09T22:52:07Z")
Hmmm, while I’m not sure that paying their athletes a salary would be good policy for a school, I don’t think the NCAA is the definitive word on that issue any more. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/254 "2021-11-10T00:14:15Z")
> **[King Canute and the tide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The story of King Canute and the tide is an apocryphal anecdote illustrating the piety or humility of King Canute the Great, recorded in the 12th century by Henry of Huntingdon. > In the story, Canute demonstrates to his flattering courtiers that he has no control over the elements (the incoming tide), explaining that secular power is vain compared to the supreme power of God. The episode is frequently alluded to in contexts where the futility of "... Only the NCAA still seems to believe that they actually can… Or at least long enough to retire rich. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/255 "2022-01-20T13:23:09Z")
Here’s some news: > **[NCAA adopts new policy for transgender athletes](https://apnews.com/article/sports-mark-emmert-college-sports-4f51bfba37c55ef7643518ba9201363a)** > > INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — The NCAA has adopted a sport-by-sport approach for transgender athletes, bringing the organization in line with the U.S. and International Olympic Committees. Under the new guidelines, approved by the NCAA Board of Governors on... ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/256 "2022-01-21T06:07:47Z")
And a new constitution, too: > **[NCAA ratifies new constitution, paving way to restructuring](https://apnews.com/article/college-football-sports-business-football-mark-emmert-03fde65e4190e5697a268a5a45d97538)** > > NCAA member schools have ratified a new, pared-down constitution. It clears the way for a decentralized approach to governing college sports that will hand more power to schools and conferences.The NCAA’s three divisions will now be empowered to... > [@](#): > > The vote was overwhelmingly in favor, 801-195, and was the main order of business at the NCAA’s annual convention. NCAA President Mark Emmert, in his state of college sports address — delivered via video conference to a convention ballroom because he is currently in COVID-19 protocols, called the new constitution more of a “declaration of independence.” > > Now each of the association’s three divisions will be empowered to govern itself. > > The new constitution is 18 1/2 pages, down from 43, and mostly lays out guiding principles and core values for the NCAA, the largest governing body for college sports in the United States with more than 1,200 member schools and nearly 500,000 athletes. > > The move is just part of a sea change for the NCAA and the first major shift in its governance model since 1996. It comes with the hope that it will [reduce college sports’ exposure to legal challenges](https://apnews.com/article/in-state-wire-college-sports-us-supreme-court-business-courts-34dbb5bac5cdd8a35116a04b3e6e4116?utm_medium=AP_Top25&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter)after a [resounding rebuke from the Supreme Court last spring.](https://apnews.com/article/ncaa-supreme-court-alston-college-athlete-benefits-5be12caeaf014da7d71baf0bb60646fe) Hey; yeah, you’re thinking. What about that? > [@](#): > > In Division I, the goal is a potentially massive overhaul that figures to be more contentious. > > “Most of our challenges are D-I challenges and we needed to unlock the ability of D-I to be able to address those concerns,” DeGioia said. > > Athlete compensation and benefits figure to be key topics. Notably, the new constitution states: “Student-athletes may not be compensated by a member institution for participating in a sport, but may receive educational and other benefits in accordance with guidelines established by their NCAA division.” There it is: an education isn’t actually compensation, according to NCAA. Or… wait now… huh? 😅 There’s no way around it: the schools pay the athletes for their participation and the payment comes in the form of “educational and other benefits”. IMO this is just another desperate attempt to try and justify and keep the shitty business model that the NCAA has had, or as close as they can continue to hoodwink the world and the courts with. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/257 "2022-01-21T12:59:11Z")
A bill has been introduced in the Iowa legislature to make student athletes at state schools employees, with salaries set by the state and subject to all benefits available. This is what the schools have always feared: that power and leverage would shift to talent and labor. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/258 "2022-01-21T14:01:19Z")
I just saw this this morning. I’m not sure the Iowa legislature has a grasp on the ramifications of this bill. Considering this legislature has a history of starving the funding for public education and state universities (including cutting $8 million from the universities’ budgets in 2020), making college athletes state employees with IPERS retirement benefits and all that goes along with that seems … odd. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/259 "2022-01-21T20:27:19Z")
GO BIG RED! The Indiana Hoosiers defeated rival #4 Purdue at home in college basketball. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/260 "2022-01-22T02:13:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Now each of the association’s three divisions will be empowered to govern itself. > > (snip) > > Athlete compensation and benefits figure to be key topics. Notably, the new constitution states: “Student-athletes may not be compensated by a member institution for participating in a sport, but may receive educational and other benefits in accordance with guidelines established by their NCAA division.” > > There it is: an education isn’t actually compensation, according to NCAA. Or… wait now… huh? > > There’s no way around it: the schools pay the athletes for their participation and the payment comes in the form of “educational and other benefits”. > > IMO this is just another desperate attempt to try and justify and keep the shitty business model that the NCAA has had, or as close as they can continue to hoodwink the world and the courts with. You read that quote wrong. The bit about receiving “educational and other benefits” primarily refers to the rights of athletes to license their names / images / likenesses and pocket the money. And what, exactly, is the NCAA’s “business model” that is so problematic? The NCAA’s real concern is that first part I quoted - “each of the association’s three divisions will be empowered to govern itself.” I fully expect the FBS schools to break away from the rest of Division I, and the Power 5 Conference schools to further break from that. It will end up being a group of 65 “haves” and about 250 “have nots” when the smoke clears - especially if the Power 5 can form its own football tournament (and the money that goes with it), resulting in more and more “Group of 5” (American, Conference USA, MAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt) players transferring to Power 5 schools, especially now that each of them gets one transfer without having to sit out a year. Any talk of, “What about a split national football championship?” will be answered with four words: Alabama 27, Cincinnati 6. The real question might be, will Division I be allowed to change its version of the NCAA Constitution to allow players to be paid directly by the schools? ---
**Author:** ![Rasseroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rasseroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rasseroni)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/261 "2022-01-22T14:33:07Z")
top end of draft looks interesting went from top 2 to top 4. how much does it drop off after that tho? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958/262 "2022-01-22T14:49:41Z")
The schools aren’t going to be forced to pay players but they’re not going to be allowed to make an agreement that they won’t, either. Things will either be a free market or the players will have to be formally involved in the process. The days of unilateral decision making by the schools are over. And I’m there for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-ncaa-thread/765958.md?page=14)