# The SDMB Shotgun Thread
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [August 4, 2007, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405 "2007-08-04T07:07:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/1 "2007-08-04T07:07:40Z")
As I was reading [this thread here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=431281) , in which a poster talks about being mystified by how a pump-action shotgun, I realised we hadn’t had a decent shotgun discussion thread in a while.
My main firearms interest is British & Commonwealth military firearms (as I’m sure many of you have already figured out!), but I’m also quite fond of shotguns as well- I do a reasonable amount of Fox and Hare hunting, and a 12-gauge is excellent for this.
In fact, several months ago I did something completely unheard of for me… I bought a brand new, in the box, firearm. :eek:
Lest you panic and think I’ve gone over to the Dark Side and purchased a Remington 700 or something equally pedestrian ;), I shall reassure you by letting you know that the new gun I purchased was, in fact, a modern reproduction of the Winchester Model 1887 12-gauge lever-action shotgun.
It’s had a few teething problems- it wasn’t ejecting the spent shells properly at first, and would often feed the fired shell back into the chamber instead of ejecting it- but I had the gunsmith look at it and now it ejects and cycles very nicely indeed. All in all, I’m very happy with it, and I’ve had a lot of fun with it at the clay target range! I haven’t had a chance to take it out hunting yet, but everyone I know who has been hunting with one says they’re excellent for bunnies, hares, and foxes, so I’m looking forward to using it in the field.
I know there’s a few other shotgun shooters here on the boards; come in, join us, and tell us all about your shotgun(s)!
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/2 "2007-08-04T07:48:58Z")
I have a Mossberg 500 Cruiser in 12 ga, with an 18.5" barrel, which I bought with home defense in mind.
I have a Remington 870 in 20 ga, with a 28" barrel and a full choke, and a swappable 20" deer/slug barrel. I’ve used the first configuration for wild turkey and grouse; I’ve never used the slug barrel.
Finally, I have a Ruger Red Label Over/Under in 20 ga with which I have murdered numerous clay pigeons.
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/3 "2007-08-04T15:22:12Z")
Mossberg 500 in 20ga, pre-68, no serial number, 26" barrel, for general shooting.
Brand new, to me, 1973 Charles Daly/Miroku Single Barrel Trap in a 32" barrel, for trap. Man, it’s a gorgeous weapon, hand-chiseled, light and easy to swing, feels like my dad’s Beretta.
Almost went for a Spartan 310, which is a Baikal, brought over by Remington. Very different feel.
I’m lucky, I’m in NY, and my local trap range is less than a mile and a half from my parent’s house, which is less than five miles from me. Before I found that, we had to use Thunder Mountain in Jersey.
On shooting Trap with a 20 ga shortbarreled pump: Yep. You can do it. It’s made me much more accurate. But when I stepped up with the Daly, with a ‘oh god, I was out till 2 AM’ headache, I scored better than I ever did with the Mossberg, and I went out there not expecting to shoot or own that gun that day.
There are some minor rust spots on the Daly. Anyone have some good suggestions for polishing them out?
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/4 "2007-08-04T15:33:36Z")
You use a shotgun to hunt foxes? Is that allowed? (On the other hand, perhaps hunting with dogs is no longer allowed.)
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/5 "2007-08-04T15:40:50Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi]
You use a shotgun to hunt foxes? Is that allowed? (On the other hand, perhaps hunting with dogs is no longer allowed.)
[/QUOTE]
Fox hunting is practiced as a form of pest control here in Australia, not a ritualised sport in its own right (as in the UK).
As such, usual practice is to either spotlight the fox at night and then shoot it with a rifle (something like a .22/250, .223, 6.5x55 Swedish calibre rifle) or a shotgun, or “call” the fox in using a Fox Whistle, at which point they’re typically about 30m away and well within range of a 12ga shotgun.
I prefer either 6.5x55 Swedish or 12ga for Fox/Hare hunting- I’ve had excellent results with my Swedish Mauser at ranges of up to 200m, and with the Coach Gun at closer range (around 20-50m).
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### Author:  [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/6 "2007-08-04T16:08:25Z")
Once upon a time I had a 12 gauge Browning BPS w/ walnut stock. It was nice. \*Too \* nice, to be honest. I found myself not wanting to shoot it or hunt with it for fear I might get it wet, scratch the walnut, or nick the bluing. I said to myself, “This is stupid. I want something I can use!”
So I sold the Browning and bought a Mossberg 500 w/ synthetic stock. It’s _great_… I don’t care if it gets dirty or scratched. 🙂
But to be honest, shotguns bore me. I \*much \* prefer rifles. 🆒
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/7 "2007-08-04T16:22:37Z")
Shows you what I know. I was brought up to hunt them with dogs and pick-up trucks, not horses (or with guns). West Virginia style.
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/8 "2007-08-04T18:09:35Z")
Do your Mossbergs have slide bars on both sides of the slide? Mine only has a bar on one side, and it has no serial number. That’s pretty much the only clues we have, as far as trying to figure out the age of the gun. Oh, and wood stock.
The addition of the second slide bar, I would judge, would improve the gun considerably.
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### Author:  [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/9 "2007-08-04T18:28:21Z")
I have a Springfield 20 ga break-action with a double barrel (side-by-side), duel triggers and 2 3/4" chamber.
I inherited it from my father-in-law (or, more aptly, since I never met him, my mother-in-law just gave it to me), but there’s no dating or serial number attached to it, so I’m not sure how old it is. Maybe mid-'40s?
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/10 "2007-08-04T19:49:20Z")
There’s a surprising amount of information you can find from the markings on a gun. I was able to tell a friend that their gun dated from 44-46, was made in Canada, and was a Lee-Enfeld sniper model, from just what it said on it, without pictures.
What’s it say on the barrel, Skip?
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### Author:  [@billyb0b](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billyb0b)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/11 "2007-08-04T20:00:15Z")
I have three shotguns: A Huglu O/U 12, a Huglu O/U 20, and a Remington pump action 16 that my grandfather left me. I sold a shotgun when I got back to the states from Turkey and can’t remember what kind it was, maybe someone here can help. It was Turkish, and was selectable from auto to pump. It had a synthetic stock and an 8 round magazine tube. Anyone ever head of this thing? I’m looking for another, I miss the silly thing for plinking.
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### Author:  [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/12 "2007-08-04T20:38:15Z")
Hey, thanks for taking a peek, **E-Sabbath**. The other gun I received was a 1917 Eddystone 30-06, so I’m curious about the age of the Springfield–especially since I’ve seen some conflicting guesses floating around.
The top side of the barrel reads:
> [@](#):
>
> Selected Forged Steel
> Proof Tested – 20 Gauge
> –2 3/4 inch chamber–
The left side (with stock facing you) reads:
> [@](#):
>
> SPRINGFIELD
> Savage Arms Corporation
> Chicopee Falls, Mass. U.S.A.
The underside of the barrel, right above the forestock, and with the forestock removed, has a [“P”](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1273/1009717823_9444a79219_o.jpg) stamped into the metal.
The [top side of the forestock](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1304/1009717927_4b9dbc81df_o.jpg) (right underneath the barrel) has “SV”, a B inside a circle, “167”, “20” and a sideways “C”
That’s it for markings as far as I can tell.
ETA: It might not help, but here’s a photo of [the whole gun](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1423/1009717809_9e9038102d_o.jpg).
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/13 "2007-08-05T00:18:04Z")
Hmmm. Savage Arms Corporation.
[http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guns-Firearms-Projectile-1501/History-value-Springfield-rifle.htm](http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guns-Firearms-Projectile-1501/History-value-Springfield-rifle.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> Springfield was the trade name used by the J. Stevens Arms and Tool Co. which was located in Chicopee Falls, Mass. The company began in 1864 as the J. Stevens and Company.
> In 1888 it was incorporated as the J. Stevens Arms and Tool Co. It operated under this name until 1920 when it was acquired by the Savage Arms Co.
So, it’s newer than 1920. Now, the address and naming sequence changes over time. Notice that the gentleman in the link has no Savage Arms on his rifle.
> **[SRS Usage Codes](https://web.archive.org/web/20070202125258/armscollectors.com/srs/usagecodes.htm)**
has some codes. The 20 is clearly 20 Ga. SV is clearly Savage.
Savage didn’t put numbers on their gun till '68.
> **[Savage Arms | Firearms, Rifles, Shotguns, Handguns](https://savagearms.com/)**
>
> Savage Arms has been building firearms since 1894. Our rifles, shotguns and handguns are accurate, dependable and loaded with innovations for high performance.
Savage’s website gives you a go-to guy.
Hm. 167 is an over-under shotgun.
AHA!
> **[How do you find the age of a Stevens shotgun? - Answers](https://www.answers.com/weaponry/How_do_you_find_the_age_of_a_Stevens_shotgun)**
>
> A key determinant is how the company name is marked (Stevens, J. Stevens Arms, J. Stevens Arms and Tool, J. Stevens Arms Co). Then you can date its manufacture +/- 20 years. Looking at the barrels should tell you if it is damascus. You should be able...
> [@](#):
>
> According to the 5th Edition of Standard Catalog of Firearms (Krause Publications), p. 677 “Collectors will find a date code stamped on every double-barrel shotgun in the Stevens brands produced between March 1949 and December 1968. Usually, it is behind the hinge pin or ahead of the triggerguard on the bottom of the frame. It will appear as a small circle containing a number and letter. The letters cofrrespond to the years shown in the following table. Significance of the numbers is not known [examples are provided: A=1949; B=1950; C=195l, etc.].” I determined that my Stevens 311D is a “circle G,” or, made in 1955.
1950
Have a nice day!
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### Author:  [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/14 "2007-08-05T01:06:28Z")
Thanks for taking a gander at that, **E-Sabbath**.
I’m wondering, though, if what you found might be part of the conflicting information I found out there.
> [@](#):
>
> Collectors will find a date code stamped on every double-barrel shotgun in the Stevens brands produced between March 1949 and December 1968. Usually, it is behind the hinge pin or ahead of the triggerguard on the bottom of the frame. It will appear as a small circle containing a number and letter.
I’d seen that in an earlier search, but my shotgun only has a circled letter, and not a circle and a number together, or even a separate circled number and separate circled letter. And the location of the circled B isn’t in either place suggested above (and even so, would we consider the forestock to be part of the frame?).
Adding to the confusion even more, I found several suggestions at WikiAnswers that the Springfield line of shotguns were not made after 1948:
> [@](#):
>
> Springfield shotguns were manufactured by the Stevens division of Savage Arms from 1920 to 1948.
> [@](#):
>
> The Springfield name was discontinued in 1948.
from [here](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_find_the_date_of_sale_of_a_Springfield_Model_67D_shotgun_with_only_its_serial_number) and [here](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_would_a_Springfield_double_barrel_shotgun_manufactured_pre_1950_be_worth), respectively.
It looks like, however, you found a reference to a model 167 being an over-under instead of a side-by-side. Me, I keep finding references to a model 67 (pump action) and that’s it.
You also found John Callahan for me, so I might pop him off a letter.
Thanks again for checking.
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### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/15 "2007-08-05T02:01:50Z")
And some people just spend way too much time with their shotgun.
[Beretta Xtrema2 Demonstration](http://youtube.com/watch?v=B6bKbqSdNEc)
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### Author:  [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/16 "2007-08-05T03:27:40Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
I have a Mossberg 500 Cruiser in 12 ga, with an 18.5" barrel, which I bought with home defense in mind.
[/QUOTE]
I have this same model. Two pistol grips,a sling, a side saddle and a tac light. I believe it’s the only one I will ever need. I hope.
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/17 "2007-08-05T04:09:33Z")
Well, let’s see. Can you find that circle-letter anywhere that the article suggests it might be? You’ve got a place to look now.
Hm. I see a reference to a ‘Fox Model B’ which is a side by side shotgun.
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### Author:  [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/18 "2007-08-05T04:14:44Z")
I have a completely unknown break action 20 ga, made by the same “Springfield Arms Company, Chicopee Falls Mass” above that I inherited from my Gramps, it is unique because it has a lovely wood stock, but a fakey bakelite plastic wood-grain fore-end. It may be operable, but it hangs on the wall.
My main duck hunting gun is a Charles Daly Field 3" 12ga auto. I bought it for something ridiculously cheap like $240 at my local gun shop. I have read a lot of unfavorable reviews of this gun, but I replaced the stock o-ring with something sturdier and have fired a minimum of 3000 shells through it with no problems. It is an incredibly light gun, which is a benefit and a drawback, It’s nice for slogging through swamps, but it beats the HELL out of your shoulder, especially when shooting high velocity steel.
I have a Winchester 1200 pump with a fixed full choke that I use for shooting trap in the backyard and for upland birds. I will occasionallly use this gun for rabbits as well.
Next on the list is a .410 that I won at a rabbit hunting tournament a few years ago, I honestly don’t even remember the make, it has a cool laser etching of a running rabbit on the stock, though!
Finally I have a Benelli Nova 12 ga that is my multipurpose gun. I have a rifled slug barrel with a red-dot scope for deer hunting in “shotgun-only” areas and the standard barrel for whatever else I might use it for.
If anyone is going to be in the area, email me. I have a 4 station “sporting clays” course set up on my little farm, and I can change the presentation of the clays pretty rapidly on 2 of the 4.
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### Author:  [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/19 "2007-08-05T04:21:29Z")
EBWOP: If it helps, the barrel on the old Springfield says " Barrel and lug forged in one piece" and when you open the action you can see either ‘WAPI’ or ‘WAP1’ on a tab under the barrel
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2007, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sdmb-shotgun-thread/414405/20 "2007-08-05T04:38:34Z")
Oooh. Lookit what I found.
[http://www.urban-armory.com/blueprints.htm](http://www.urban-armory.com/blueprints.htm)
(see the Savage and Mossberg?)
[http://www.chuckhawks.com/fox\_B\_shotguns.htm](http://www.chuckhawks.com/fox_B_shotguns.htm)
Looks like yours, sort of, except yours isn’t a Fox.
> [@wikianswers](#):
>
> Beginning about 1948 their guns were marked simply Stevens or both Stevens and Savage.
> **[Where can you find information about a Stevens Savage model 311 D? - Answers](https://www.answers.com/weaponry/Where_can_you_find_information_about_a_Stevens_Savage_model_311_D)**
>
> BETTER ANSWERAngels Gun Stocks, Midway-Tallahassee, FloridaHas complete stocks available for the Stevens 311, with an explation of the different types of 311 fits. angelsgunstocks@Yahoo.com or http://www.angelsgunstocks.com.AnswerWell I to am...
Yeah, clearly pre-48, you do not have that stamping.
Is there ANYwhere you can find a model number?
> [@wikianswers](#):
>
> The model number is stamped on the right side of the receiver on many Stevens products.
[http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Model\_ID\_and\_value\_of\_Springfield\_Arms\_shotgun](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Model_ID_and_value_of_Springfield_Arms_shotgun)
So, let’s see. 5000, 5100, 311.
[http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guns-Firearms-Projectile-1501/J-Stevens-Model-5100.htm](http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guns-Firearms-Projectile-1501/J-Stevens-Model-5100.htm)
Probably a 5100 or 311.
Is this your shotgun?
> **[Stevens $7 Fix](http://marauder.homestead.com/Stevens311.html)**
>
> Fix for Stevens 311
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