# The Second Beast of Revelation 13 - Abu Mazen **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669 "2005-08-26T02:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/21 "2005-08-26T09:46:08Z")
I’m with **Freyr** The OP didn’t answer it’s own question: > [@](#): > > Why would anybody need to know or care about knowing who the beast and the false prophet are? When we see a big wolf swallowing the sun, _that_ is when we have to start worrying. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/22 "2005-08-26T09:53:41Z")
**Ephraim** , I cannot believe that you are still bothering with this nonsense after being categorically [proven wrong](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4560359&postcount=131) last time. You are fitting an utterly arbitrary curve to a data set, like seeing shapes in clouds or hearing [satanic lyrics in Stairway to Heaven played backwards](http://www.nyas.org/snc/readersReport.asp?articleId=25&page=1) (click link at bottom of page, below photo of priest Lemaitre). ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/23 "2005-08-26T09:55:36Z")
And, to play the same old song a second time: If Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) dies before the second Coming, do you promise to post here that you were wrong _again_? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/24 "2005-08-26T10:06:43Z")
**ephraim** , please read [this](http://www.freeminds.org/psych/propfail.htm) again. What do you think of it? Do you recognise any such phenomena as “disconfirmation” or “cognitive dissonance”? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/25 "2005-08-26T10:20:41Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > **ephraim** , please read [this](http://www.freeminds.org/psych/propfail.htm) again. What do you think of it? Do you recognise any such phenomena as “disconfirmation” or “cognitive dissonance”? Interresting article. Last line made me chuckle; > [@](#): > > When the dissolution of the Watchtower movement comes, as it inevitably will, it will more likely be due to dissension from within than from the disconfirmation of prophecy. Until that day, let us hope and pray that the eyes of many Witnesses will be opened up to the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ and come to Him. Translated: As their cult will fail, let’s hope they will join _our_ cult! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/26 "2005-08-26T14:57:12Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > When we see a big wolf swallowing the sun, _that_ is when we have to start worrying. Worry not. Ragnarok has come and gone. Remember that it was not only the fall of the gods that was foretold. The rise of a new shining host was prophecied. Bright Balder would leave Nifleheim and return to life in Asgard. Vidar and others were fated to survive the great battle. So was it written. So did it come to pass. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/27 "2005-08-26T15:06:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Hey, **ephraim** , aren’t we all supposed to be [worshipping Yassir Arafat’s corpse](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5506393&postcount=212) by now? Dude, you mean you’re not? You are so gonna get in trouble when the Antichrist gets home from the store. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/28 "2005-08-26T15:07:01Z")
Considering the OP’s unique eschatology, as well as the tongue-in-cheek mentions of Viking mythology, JW beliefs and the myriad of others, how does a person come to believe in _any_ of them? We’ve got Jesus, Freyr and Yahweh and more just in this thread. All of them devotedly believed in either now or in the past by thousands or millions of people. I just don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/29 "2005-08-26T15:44:47Z")
It works a bit like this: -Declare that a certain person is the antichrist (or some other prominent prophesied figure) -If that person dies, tell people that _what you actually meant_ was, of course, that the spirit of the antichrist is embodied in the organisation to which the person belonged. -If that organisation is disbanded or destroyed, your best bet is to argue that they have simply gone underground, or maybe just look wistful and murmur “all is not as it seems” in as mysterious a tone as you can muster. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/30 "2005-08-26T16:33:21Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Worry not. Ragnarok has come and gone. Remember that it was not only the fall of the gods that was foretold. The rise of a new shining host was prophecied. Bright Balder would leave Nifleheim and return to life in Asgard. Vidar and others were fated to survive the great battle. > > So was it written. So did it come to pass. And to pass, and to pass, again and again. Round '84, as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/31 "2005-08-26T17:01:24Z")
Abu mazen? _That’s_ the anti-christ? Damn. I mean, at least Arafat had some presence on the world stage. But a place-holder like Mazen? They just ain’t makin’ Anti-christs like they used to. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/32 "2005-08-26T17:23:23Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > When we see a big wolf swallowing the sun, _that_ is when we have to start worrying. Garm? Garm! Bad wolf-dog! Spit that sun out right now! * * * Regarding the OP. I guess I’m not all that worried, since I’m not decended from one of the twelve tribes, I can’t be one of the 144,000. Does anyone (besides the End Timers) take Revelation seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/33 "2005-08-26T17:42:47Z")
As a serious question, what about the contention that everyone who voted for what’s his name damned their soul to hell for all eternity? Do even fundamentalist christians believe that you can damn yourself beyond redemption by accident? Sorry kid, you stepped on a crack and broke Jesus’ back. Does even the OP really believe that? Will the OP return to this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/34 "2005-08-26T18:15:01Z")
BTW, it’s [ **SentientMeat** ’s fault. > [@](#): > > As a rare example of fruitloop interpretation of the “ten horns” which was proven false by real life events, I offer [url=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=238609](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=238609)”]this thread]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6508317&postcount=55](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6508317&postcount=55)). (After reading the OP, see page 5 for what happened when Arafat inconveniently went and died.) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/35 "2005-08-26T18:17:35Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > BTW, it’s [url=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6508317&postcount=55](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6508317&postcount=55)”] **SentientMeat** ’s fault. He turned around in a dark bathroom and said “ **ephraim** ” three times? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/36 "2005-08-26T18:18:09Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > Garm? > > Garm! > > Bad wolf-dog! Spit that sun out right now! Garm has indeed been naughty if he has swallowed the sun. Garm is supposed to be in Niflheim, guarding the entrance. When the sun-chasing wolf Skoll (should have an umlaut over the o) finally catches the sun and devours it, Garm will join the army of evil for the final battle. He and Odin will battle and slay eachother. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/37 "2005-08-26T18:22:21Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > Garm? > > Garm! > > Bad wolf-dog! Spit that sun out right now! > > * * * > > Regarding the OP. I guess I’m not all that worried, since I’m not decended from one of the twelve tribes, I can’t be one of the 144,000. > > Does anyone (besides the End Timers) take Revelation seriously? I doubt it, but there are a lot of End Timers. That’s why that stupid “Left Behind” series sells well. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/38 "2005-08-26T18:30:43Z")
Upon close reading, I find that the Flying Spaghetti Monster has slightly more merit. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/39 "2005-08-26T18:50:05Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Garm has indeed been naughty if he has swallowed the sun. Garm is supposed to be in Niflheim, guarding the entrance. When the sun-chasing wolf Skoll (should have an umlaut over the o) finally catches the sun and devours it, Garm will join the army of evil for the final battle. He and Odin will battle and slay eachother. Um… Like I said: 😃 > [@](#): > > Sko:ll? > > Sko:ll! > > Bad Wolf! Spit that sun out right now! That’s what I get for trusting my memory. (Stupid Starblazers.) I thought Garm and Tyr destroy each other, and Odin v. Fenrir was for the title bout. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669/40 "2005-08-26T19:09:23Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > I thought Garm and Tyr destroy each other, and Odin v. Fenrir was for the title bout. Right you are. This is what I get for posting while reading other entries in the book. Re The One True Pasta It’s on my list of possibilities. If Burger King ever introduces spaghetti, sell everything you have and put it all in canned food and shotguns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-beast-of-revelation-13-abu-mazen/318669.md?page=3)