# The second coming of Jesus Christ **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2004, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318 "2004-04-05T07:32:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![godamajin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@godamajin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godamajin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/1 "2004-04-05T07:32:37Z")
In light of the recent happenings around the world I’ve wondered about the true nature and depth of the “War on Terror”. 1. Is this “Jihad” defined as the “Holy War” because in essence it is a war between two “Holy” religions, Christians and Muslims. 2.The Christians were given a book of “Revelations”. What is the purpose of that book? Does Islam have an equivalent prophecy? 1. With the “Passion of Christ” having spiritually polarized the globe in a manner that makes it abundantly clear the moral foundation of those “for or against” that in fact may mean that we are being tested to see if we "Stand? 4.Has Christ already returned as was promised the second coming…With the result of the “Passion” if just a guess, can equal in number those saved by his death. If those who refuse to stand up to the test. Which world would suffer the East of the West? Thank you for your input 11011011 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/2 "2004-04-05T07:56:19Z")
General Questions is for questions with factual answers. Great Debates is our forum for debates. Off to Great Debates. **DrMatrix** - GQ Moderator ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/3 "2004-04-05T07:59:28Z")
Look busy! Look busy! ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/4 "2004-04-05T11:13:18Z")
> [@godamajin](#): > > In light of the recent happenings around the world I’ve wondered about the true nature and depth of the “War on Terror”. > > 1. Is this “Jihad” defined as the “Holy War” because in essence it is a war between two “Holy” religions, Christians and Muslims. > > 2.The Christians were given a book of “Revelations”. What is the purpose of that book? Does Islam have an equivalent prophecy? > > 1. With the “Passion of Christ” having spiritually polarized the globe in a manner that makes it abundantly clear the moral foundation of those “for or against” that in fact may mean that we are being tested to see if we "Stand? > > 4.Has Christ already returned as was promised the second coming…With the result of the “Passion” if just a guess, can equal in number those saved by his death. If those who refuse to stand up to the test. Which world would suffer the East of the West? > > Thank you for your input 11011011 1. I wouldn’t necessarily call it Muslims vs. Christians, but more along the lines of Muslims vs. The West and Western influenced nations. We (America) have been called Crusaders however, so sure. 2. The book of Revelations, along with the book of Daniel, are about the end times. The Anti-Christ, the rapture, the tribulation, the second coming, etc. Their purpose is to inform us regarding the last days and the evil they bring. I don’t know if Muslims have a book of this kind, but I do know that Sunni (perhaps all Muslims?) are waiting for the Mahdi. We have Muslim folk here, they’ll clarify. 3. Our faith and love is the test, not our opinion on a movie. 4. No, Christ will return after the rapture. I can’t quite understand the rest of the question but everyone will be judged according to their faith and good works, regardless of location. My truth be told, Israel has an infinitely more important position in the prophecies. And if you’re curious, Israel is supposed to be hated by the world. check mark I’m a Christian if you can’t tell. Not a very good one, but a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Necro\_Romancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Necro\_Romancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necro_Romancer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/5 "2004-04-05T11:23:22Z")
Perhaps hate is too strong a word. The prophecy regarding Israel says that it will be a stumbling block for the world. There you go. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/6 "2004-04-05T16:26:24Z")
Apparently, today is the day. [http://www.2ndcomingofchrist.com/whoisj.htm](http://www.2ndcomingofchrist.com/whoisj.htm) ---
**Author:** ![beajerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@beajerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beajerry)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/7 "2004-04-05T16:58:33Z")
I heard a funny comment on the radio the other day about this. One of Jesus’ main teachings was to not judge others, but now people are waiting for the Second Coming…to be judged. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/8 "2004-04-05T17:06:14Z")
Eschatology views vary widely within Christendom, but one thing is agreed upon nearly unanimously: It’s the book of Revalation, not “Revalations.” Specifically, the Revalation of Jesus Christ to St. John. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/9 "2004-04-05T17:10:17Z")
> [@godamajin](#): > > In light of the recent happenings around the world I’ve wondered about the true nature and depth of the "War on Terror”. > > 1. Is this “Jihad” defined as the “Holy War” because in essence it is a war between two “Holy” religions, Christians and Muslims. You wouldn’t happen to know of any unholy religions would you? Besides are you talking about jihad being waged by a small number of ideologically linked terrorists or the response of various governments to those terrorists? > [@godamajin](#): > > 2.The Christians were given a book of “Revelations”. What is the purpose of that book? Does Islam have an equivalent prophecy? No one “gave” Revalations to the Christians. A Christian wrote revelations, a bizarre mishmash of imagery that throws up echoes of older Jewish scriptures. > [@godamajin](#): > > 1. With the “Passion of Christ” having spiritually polarized the globe in a manner that makes it abundantly clear the moral foundation of those “for or against” that in fact may mean that we are being tested to see if we "Stand? Cite for “polarized the globe”. Maybe your tiny section of it but aside from appealing to zealous believers I’m not sure how applicable a movie screaming “Look what you did to God” is when describing feeling in Bali. > [@godamajin](#): > > 4.Has Christ already returned as was promised the second coming…With the result of the “Passion” if just a guess, can equal in number those saved by his death. If those who refuse to stand up to the test. Which world would suffer the East of the West? What? Isn’t Jesus supposed to come back in glory and with trumpets or something? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/10 "2004-04-05T17:23:30Z")
> [@godamajin](#): > > 1. Is this “Jihad” defined as the “Holy War” because in essence it is a war between two “Holy” religions, Christians and Muslims. > > 2.The Christians were given a book of “Revelations”. What is the purpose of that book? Does Islam have an equivalent prophecy? > > 1. With the “Passion of Christ” having spiritually polarized the globe in a manner that makes it abundantly clear the moral foundation of those “for or against” that in fact may mean that we are being tested to see if we "Stand? > > 4.Has Christ already returned as was promised the second coming…With the result of the “Passion” if just a guess, can equal in number those saved by his death. If those who refuse to stand up to the test. Which world would suffer the East of the West? 1. I agree, it is more of a West vs. Middle East deal. This"jihad" is defined as _a_ “holy war” because that is the general definition of the word “jihad” (a struggle of the Muslim people against infidels). In reality, many Muslims from the Middle East will state that this was has been going on for over a thousand years (or more). 2. I am not qualified to answer this. 3. I wouldn’t say that “Passion of the Crhsit” has “spiritually polarized the globe.” It may have made some fundie Christians cream their pants and some Jews get rather nervous, but I don’t think it polarized America, much less the globe. 4. I’m not sure I understood your second sentence, but I’ll take a shot. People have claimed the Second Coming many, many times throughout history, mostly by claiming someone was the antichrist - from Attila the Hun to Bill Clinton. Now, assuming that fundamental Christianity is right, probably 3 or 4 families in the midwest and maybe a few Amish would be Saved. The rest of us are pretty screwed. Taking a more liberal view of Christianity, all Christians who are truly faithful are Saved. Taking a yet more liberal view of it, all of the people on the planet who behaved “good” are Saved. As you can see, this is not a clear cut topic, and certainly not something you can judge based on the box office receipts from “The Passion.” As for the radio host who made the joke about not judging but being judged, s/he is pretty ignorant of the basic concepts of Christianity O\_o - and I’m not a Christian, so don’t jump down my throat for being overly defensive. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/11 "2004-04-05T17:28:07Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > No one “gave” Revalations to the Christians. A Christian wrote revelations, a bizarre mishmash of imagery that throws up echoes of older Jewish > scriptures. Actually, you are right. No one gave “Revalations” to the Christians. On the other hand, Jesus _did_ give Revalation to the Christians, as **Skammer** pointed out. > [@](#): > > What? Isn’t Jesus supposed to come back in glory and with trumpets or something? _whisper_ Your ignorance is showing ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/12 "2004-04-05T17:30:32Z")
The Bible clearly states Jesus will return in the air for His followers; He will, not some human dude! Then begins the countdown. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/13 "2004-04-05T17:35:25Z")
Well don’t just sit there **Zagadka** , clarify away. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/14 "2004-04-05T17:41:12Z")
_Revelation_ is not end-times prophecy. It’s apocalyptic literature, in the original meaning of “apocalypse” as “secret, hidden”. The modern sense of “apocalypse” as “end-of-the-world” comes from misunderstanding of this book, which is actually titled _Apocalypse_ in some translations of the Bible. _Revelation_ is written to and for the Christian communities in the Roman Empire at the end of the 1st Century as an attempt to give them hope in the middle of Roman persecution. It’s not a prophecy in the modern sense. It’s not a prediction of the future. It’s straightforward “buck up and keep the faith!” couched in esoteric imagery to keep it from being immediately suppressed by the Romans. Every layer of literality and prediction that’s been added to it is a later invention with no basis in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/15 "2004-04-05T17:49:23Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Well don’t just sit there **Zagadka** , clarify away. Well, since you are clearly a scholar on Revelation, knowing not only what it is called, but its source but its basic premise, why don’t you explain about how Jesus is going to come with glory with the call of trumpets? While trumpets are involved, I think your got your imagery crossed. > [@](#): > > When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. 5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth; and there were peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake. 6 Now the seven angels who had the seven trumpets made ready to blow them. 7 The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, which fell on the earth; and a third of the earth was burnt up, and a third of the trees were burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8 The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea; 9 and a third of the sea became blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. 10 The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the fountains of water. 11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died of the water, because it was made bitter. 12 The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light was darkened; a third of the day was kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night. 13 Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice, as it flew in midheaven, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets which the three angels are about to blow!” ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/16 "2004-04-05T17:54:12Z")
Ah, no trumpets [just](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08552a.htm) > [@](#): > > **6. Extraordinary Perturbations of Nature.** The Scriptures clearly indicate that the judgment will be preceded by unwonted and terrifying disturbances of the physical universe (Matthew 24:29; Luke 21:25-26). The wars, pestilences, famines, and earthquakes foretold in Matthew 24:6 sq., are also understood by some writers as among the calamities of the last times. > \*\*7. The Universal Conflagration.\*\*In the Apostolic writings we are told that the end of the world will be brought about through a general conflagration, which, however, will not annihilate the present creation, but will change its form and appearance (2 Peter 3:10-13; cf. 1 Thessalonians 5:2; Apocalypse 3:3, and 16:15). Natural science shows the possibility of such a catastrophe being produced in the ordinary course of events, but theologians generally tend to believe that its origin will be entirely miraculous. > **8. The Trumpet of Resurrection.** Several texts in the New Testament make mention of a voice or trumpet which will awaken the dead to resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; John 5:28). According to St. Thomas (Supplement 86:2) there is reference in these passages either to the voice or to the apparition of Christ, which will cause the resurrection of the dead. > **9. “The Sign of the Son of Man Appearing in the Heavens.”** In Matthew 24:30, this is indicated as the sign immediately preceding the appearance of Christ to judge the world. By this sign the Fathers of the Church generally understand the appearance in the sky of the Cross on which the Saviour died or else of a wonderful cross of light I suppose the whole “thief in the night” might not be right either? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/17 "2004-04-05T17:58:21Z")
Regardless of all that, my point was that it seems that if Jesus does come back it might be somewhat difficult to miss the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/18 "2004-04-05T18:06:54Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Regardless of all that, my point was that it seems that if Jesus does come back it might be somewhat difficult to miss the whole thing. Fair enough. I don’t think the OP has his wits gathered about him, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/19 "2004-04-05T21:10:11Z")
> [@godamajin](#): > > 1. Is this “Jihad” defined as the “Holy War” because in essence it is a war between two “Holy” religions, Christians and Muslims. [Jihad definition. [URL=http://www.islam.org.au/articles/26/jihad.htm]Types of jihad.](http://tariq.bitshop.com/misconceptions/jihad/jinqh.htm) ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318/20 "2004-04-05T23:40:20Z")
“its not a prediction of the future” Right; I can’t see HOW on earth the verse which states people will have amark on their hand or not be allowed to buy or sell could ever happen in this day of microchips! Crazy talk! :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-coming-of-jesus-christ/238318.md?page=2)