# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")
Here we go again. This debate is going to be a whole different kettle o’ fish than the first. A different set of topics, a different moderator, and a different debate style. After his widely derided performance at the first presidential debate, I wonder how aggressive President Obama will be at this one. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/2 "2012-10-16T04:37:36Z")
Grr. And don’t give me any gruff about the messed up title, I’ve already asked a mod to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/3 "2012-10-16T04:38:11Z")
I’m gonna guess more aggressive than a couple of weeks ago, but not Luther-aggressive, if you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/4 "2012-10-16T04:44:43Z")
I think the President will be a whole lot gruffer than the first debate, and will probably call out Romney’s guff a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/5 "2012-10-16T05:04:20Z")
Its a townhall style thing, isn’t it? I don’t think that’s a very good venue to be really aggressive, at least in the sense of attacking the other guy (“this one”). In anycase, I don’t think lack of aggressiveness was Obama’s problem last time. He just seemed kinda checked out and not very enthusiastic. I imagine his staff will give him a few shots of expresso beforehand and hopefully he’ll perk up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/6 "2012-10-16T05:11:53Z")
I’m going to second Charlie Pierce in [predicting the narrative following the debate](http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/second-presidential-debate-2012-13764625#ixzz29R4xVXSD): > [@](#): > > This is what you need to know. Willard Romney will “do what he has to do” to maintain the illusion of his being a carbon-based life form. The president, on the other hand, because he is “more comfortable with the town-hall format,” also will do “everything he has to do” to recover from the fiasco he handed the nation in the first of the presidential debates not yet thirteen days ago. The debate likely “will not move the needle” in any direction, although Romney’s performance likely “may allay some doubts about his ability to connect with ordinary voters,” while the president’s performance likely “will reassure nervous Democrats who only last week wondered if he really wanted the job.” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/7 "2012-10-16T05:12:34Z")
Hempstead, New York: elevation, 80 ft. I guess we’ll test out Gore’s [theory](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/04/gore-blames-denver-altitude-for-obama-debate-performance/) :rolleyes: about Obama’s performance in the previous debate. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/8 "2012-10-16T05:32:19Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Its a townhall style thing, isn’t it? I don’t think that’s a very good venue to be really aggressive, at least in the sense of attacking the other guy (“this one”). Not “really aggressive,” true, but I don’t see what’s so hard about saying, in response to a question about X, something like “whereas my opponent wants to do A, B, and C - oh, and here’s why it’s bad - I would do D, E, and F.” ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/9 "2012-10-16T06:06:37Z")
The problem is that Romney has either not uttered either an A or has promised A-L at different times during the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/10 "2012-10-16T06:19:30Z")
I saw that both camps are worried about Candy Crowley. They had some agreement with each other that the moderator would have minimal involvement, not ask follow-up questions, etc. but Candy is saying she didn’t agree to that and is not going to be anybody’s Jim Leherer. I say, if she’s got both sides worried, she’s doing something right. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/11 "2012-10-16T06:54:02Z")
I’ll be watching, but I’m not expecting much. I’d love to see Obama raked over the coals for persecuting John Kiriakou for confirming the US government’s use of torture while the torturers themselves are protected from justice. And it would be nice if Romney was confronted on live television with the fact that torturing people is a shitty way of obtaining intelligence. Or even just reminding voters that imprisoning people indefinitely without bothering to check if you’ve got the right guy is a bad thing. But somehow, I doubt that this debate between two supporters of human rights violations will see those sorts of questions asked. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/12 "2012-10-16T07:02:58Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Here we go again. This debate is going to be a whole different kettle o’ fish than the first. A different set of topics, a different moderator, and a different debate style. After his widely derided performance at the first presidential debate, I wonder how aggressive President Obama will be at this one. I think Obama is going to slap Romney in the face and donkey punch him in the balls right after the handshake just to satisfy the liberals. > [@Nazarene](#): > > I saw that both camps are worried about Candy Crowley. They had some agreement with each other that the moderator would have minimal involvement, not ask follow-up questions, etc. but Candy is saying she didn’t agree to that and is not going to be anybody’s Jim Leherer. > > I say, if she’s got both sides worried, she’s doing something right. I still remember the Onion headline after Obama won: Black man gets world’s worst job (or something like that, I’m paraphrasing). There is only so much more you could have expected from Obama or anyone to do in that situation. Romney has to defend every position because he has taken all of them. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/13 "2012-10-16T07:36:19Z")
> [@Nazarene](#): > > I saw that both camps are worried about Candy Crowley. They had some agreement with each other that the moderator would have minimal involvement, not ask follow-up questions, etc. but Candy is saying she didn’t agree to that and is not going to be anybody’s Jim Leherer. > > I say, if she’s got both sides worried, she’s doing something right. I just read her interview about the debates - I like the sound of her and what she has said. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/14 "2012-10-16T12:23:43Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Its a townhall style thing, isn’t it? I don’t think that’s a very good venue to be really aggressive, at least in the sense of attacking the other guy (“this one”). > > In anycase, I don’t think lack of aggressiveness was Obama’s problem last time. He just seemed kinda checked out and not very enthusiastic. I imagine his staff will give him a few shots of expresso beforehand and hopefully he’ll perk up a bit. This. Debate format doesn’t determine content or strategy, but it does determine technique. The duelling podium setup last time requires crisp soundbites delivered authoritatively, quick rejoinders and firm rebuttals. It requires eye contact with the opponent, the moderator and the camera. Obama failed to deliver on crispness and quickness and came off as detached. The townhall format calls for mobility and direct engagement with an audience, and rewards emotional facility and empathy. It’s an interactive sales presentation where each Q&A is an opportunity to relate your product to individual biases, or to tear down competing products. I expect the president to be much more of an explainer in this debate, both in the construction and rationale of his own policies and in the dismantling of Romney/GOP ideas. He’ll be aggressive toward the RomneyLies®, but not to point out the flipping and flopping so much as to redirect our attention to the positions officially claimed, enunciated and developed by the Romney/Ryan ticket and the GOP. I’ve been pointing out this strategy since April: > [@Hey Obama, don’t screw this up](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hey-obama-don-t-screw-this-up/619256/39): > > The Obama campaign will take every opportunity to make Romney own his most radical pronouncements not to show who he is or what he stands for; he’s a businessman who’s all about business and the President will acknowledge that every time. What Obama will try and show persuadable voters is that Romney’s in _the business_ of “severe conservativism” because regardless of whatever he actually wants to do, he’s owned and operated by the Republican Party. \ > > So the question Obama wants voters asking themselves isn’t “Is Mittens a rightwing radical extremist?”, it’s “Will President Romney go along with everything his party wants him to do?” And since there’s very little evidence that Romney possesses a firm commitment to any political principle except the pursuit of executive authority, it’s hard to envision him saying no to his political base… ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/15 "2012-10-16T12:53:31Z")
A “town hall” of “undecided” voters … I wonder if those who pick the audience are undecided… or those who pick the questions… or the moderator even? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/16 "2012-10-16T13:20:13Z")
I fearlessly predict a better Obama performance tonight, mainly because it’s hard to imagine a worse one than last time, short of him picking his nose and flicking the boogers at the audience. This format is much more suited to Obama. I think part of his problem with the podium format is that he has so much personal disgust for Romney (as have all the Republican rivals that he debated) that he has to concentrate on not showing it. In this format he can engage the person who asked the question and only talk indirectly to Satan’s spawn. Best thing he can do is pretend that Romney isn’t in the room and talk with the voter about what he wants to do and contrast it with the evil little prick running against him. Look for awkward Mitt to return tonight. At the back of his mind is “thank God I only have three more weeks to pretend to care about the little people”. The moderators have all learned from the Lehrer debacle. They aren’t going to let Mittens trample through the evening like the last time. I hope candy asks some good followup questions and reminds Romney when he doesn’t answer the question posed to him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/17 "2012-10-16T13:24:45Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > A “town hall” of “undecided” voters … Those two people are going to get a lot of face time with the candidates! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/18 "2012-10-16T13:34:10Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > In anycase, I don’t think lack of aggressiveness was Obama’s problem last time. He just seemed kinda checked out and not very enthusiastic. I imagine his staff will give him a few shots of expresso beforehand and hopefully he’ll perk up a bit. Here’s hoping they dust it with coke, crystal meth, and a bit of PCP. I want to see him picking Romney’s liver out of his teeth. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/19 "2012-10-16T15:25:57Z")
No secret I am a huge Obama supporter, but the truth of the matter is that Obama simply does not do well in debates. Four years ago, people expected him to slay McCain and he didn’t. Many thought he was “holding back” for various reasons. Obama’s personality is simply not aggressive or confrontational. He does not rile easily and contains his contempt. He knows that to win an argument, diplomacy and tact are his forte. He is someone I would trust in difficult negotiations with some idiot tin pot dictator - not sinking to some macho, kick-ass bully persona, but presenting facts and then following up with his [del]threats[/del] promises. Unfortunately, this is not all that entertaining to watch. Obama will certainly do better this time around - he is no fool and knows his loyal base wants to see him in action. But I still think it goes against Obama’s grain to expect him to fight dirty. I think he truly believes he has presented his side of the issues, his programs and his vision of the future and you either buy it or you don’t. Period. It might be momentarily satisfying to attack Romney, but it doesn’t make Obama feel good or proud of himself to do so. The Town Hall style of debate is more in Obama’s favor. He can ignore Romney completely, only vaguely acknowledging filp flops in policy and outrageous statements Romney has made. Instead, Obama will focus on the person in audience who asked the question. He can easily relate to the “average” person, be quite charming and personable, and can give intelligent, thoughtful answers based upon experience. As long as he doesn’t pontificate, this comes across quite nicely on television. Romney, on the other hand, has to be careful not to come across as smarmy. He has a tendency to look like a slick used car salesman, and people are quick to pick this up. The more he smiles and puts on his sincere face (especially when stressed and caught in a lie), the more people start to feel their bullshit radar beeping. So yeah, we Obama fans will be far happier tonight. But I don’t think Obama will “win” this as much as Romney will “lose” this for himself. My guess is that after all is said and done tonight, people will call Obama “Presidential” in his approach and consider Romney less convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/20 "2012-10-16T15:54:09Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > No secret I am a huge Obama supporter, but the truth of the matter is that Obama simply does not do well in debates. Four years ago, people expected him to slay McCain and he didn’t. Many thought he was “holding back” for various reasons. > > Obama’s personality is simply not aggressive or confrontational. He does not rile easily and contains his contempt. He knows that to win an argument, diplomacy and tact are his forte. He is someone I would trust in difficult negotiations with some idiot tin pot dictator - not sinking to some macho, kick-ass bully persona, but presenting facts and then following up with his [del]threats[/del] promises. Unfortunately, this is not all that entertaining to watch. > > Obama will certainly do better this time around - he is no fool and knows his loyal base wants to see him in action. But I still think it goes against Obama’s grain to expect him to fight dirty. I think he truly believes he has presented his side of the issues, his programs and his vision of the future and you either buy it or you don’t. Period. It might be momentarily satisfying to attack Romney, but it doesn’t make Obama feel good or proud of himself to do so. > > The Town Hall style of debate is more in Obama’s favor. He can ignore Romney completely, only vaguely acknowledging filp flops in policy and outrageous statements Romney has made. Instead, Obama will focus on the person in audience who asked the question. He can easily relate to the “average” person, be quite charming and personable, and can give intelligent, thoughtful answers based upon experience. As long as he doesn’t pontificate, this comes across quite nicely on television. > > Romney, on the other hand, has to be careful not to come across as smarmy. He has a tendency to look like a slick used car salesman, and people are quick to pick this up. The more he smiles and puts on his sincere face (especially when stressed and caught in a lie), the more people start to feel their bullshit radar beeping. > > So yeah, we Obama fans will be far happier tonight. But I don’t think Obama will “win” this as much as Romney will “lose” this for himself. My guess is that after all is said and done tonight, people will call Obama “Presidential” in his approach and consider Romney less convincing. I think this is pretty accurate. Obama isn’t a brawler, preferring rational discourse in debates, often to his detriment. That said, I don’t think he’ll give Romney a pass like he did last time. Romney will continue to be a pompous ass and try to pass off lies as truth. I hope Crawley asks questions that will evoke a typical Romney off-script gaffe or two. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=2)