# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/21 "2012-10-16T16:22:54Z")
Obama has to be careful not to look artificial, though. We know that aggression and bombast are not natural to him, so he needs to be careful not to force it or “perform” in a way that makes it look like he’s trying to be somebody he isn’t. I think what he needs to be is the Obama he was that day in the room with all those House Republicans during the health care debate. It was orchestrated to be a group take down of Obama, but he ended up eating their lunch. When he gets agitated, he can bring it, but even then, he still does it with a carefully modulated tone, and with facts. He can’t overdo it and come out with “that’s a bunch of malarky,” type bombast because that’s not who he is, and it won;t ring true. He needs to be firm and take no bullshit, but he has to be authentic too. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/22 "2012-10-16T17:22:55Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > A “town hall” of “undecided” voters … I wonder if those who pick the audience are undecided… or those who pick the questions… or the moderator even? The moderator picks the questions out of ones the audience members submit ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/23 "2012-10-16T17:25:45Z")
What I want to see are questions on women’s issues (equal pay, contraception, abortion) and immigration. For once the Democrats benefit from discussion of social issues and I want that gender gap to become a gender canyon. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/24 "2012-10-16T17:33:50Z")
If Romney gets grilled on finally giving details on his impossible tax plan he can always point them to this [website](http://www.romneytaxplan.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/25 "2012-10-16T18:03:43Z")
I think that no matter what happens, President Obama will be declared the winner. People will judge his performance this time against his past performance (which was amazingly dreadful) and declare him the winner based on improvement alone. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/26 "2012-10-16T19:33:37Z")
[Has this been mentioned somewhere?](http://gawker.com/5951977/leaked-debate-agreement-shows-both-obama-and-romney-are-sniveling-cowards?utm_source=gizmodo.com&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=recirculation) I don’t know if it’s true, but apparently the candidates have some kind of agreement on how they’ll behave themselves during debates. I honestly don’t think it helps one more than the other as they are both weak at improvisation. Whether that story is true or not, I expect a snoozefest of a debate tonight. I’ll watch it, but I’m not expecting fireworks. **Nars Glinley** is probably right, all Obama has to do is not blow it again. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/27 "2012-10-16T19:42:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The candidates may not ask each other direct questions during any of the four debates." > “The candidates shall not address each other with proposed pledges.” > “At no time during the October 3 First Presidential debate shall either candidate move from his designated area behing the respective podium.” > For the October 16 town-hall-style debate, “the moderator will not ask follow-up questions or comment on either the questions asked by the audience or the answers of the candidates during the debate…” > “The audience members shall not ask follow-up questions or otherwise participate in the extended discussion, and the audience member’s microphone shall be turned off after he or she completes asking the questions.” > “[T]he Commission shall take appropriate steps to cut-off the microphone of any…audience member who attempts to pose any question or statement different than that previously posed to the moderator for review.” > “No candidate may reference or cite any specific individual sitting in a debate audience (other than family members) at any time during a debate.” > For the town-hall debate: “Each candidate may move about in a pre-designated area, as proposed by the Commission and approved by each campaign, and may not leave that area while the debate is underway.” What fucking pussies. I hope Candy just ignores every word of this. Cutting off the mics of the questioners is especially chickenshit. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/28 "2012-10-16T20:10:21Z")
A prediction. Obama will hold his own in this debate. His performance however will be such a contrast to his lackluster appearance in the last one that the Democrats will be reaching for superlatives and spinning for all their worth to cement the perception of a glorious victory. The media may well go along with that. In other words a win or a tie will be a win for Obama. A defeat or a tie will be a loss for Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/29 "2012-10-16T20:15:09Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > If Romney gets grilled on finally giving details on his impossible tax plan he can always point them to this [website](http://www.romneytaxplan.com/). Now that is a great link. NSFW unless you can laugh out loud without drawing attention. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/30 "2012-10-16T20:24:52Z")
Intrade actually has a market on who will win the debate as per the CNN poll. I am somewhat surprised that Obama is ahead right now at 57% though it’s probably a thin market. I expect this market will move dramatically during the debate and should be quite fun to watch. ``` Personally I didn't think Obama was nearly as bad in the first debate as the conventional wisdom. One of my favorite bloggers Kevin Drum gave him a B- to Romney's B and that seemed about right to me. Obama was flat but several of his answers were thoughtful and substantive. Romney had some great answers where he rebutted Obama point by point but overall his manner was too jumpy IMO. Drum had a follow-up [post](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/10/hack-gap-rears-its-ugly-head-yet-again)where he argued that what really hurt Obama was the near-universal attacks on his performance by left pundits. He also argued that there was a "hack gap" and that conservative pundits wouldn't have savaged their candidate if the roles were reversed. I agree with that. Most of Bush's debate performances were worse than Obama but never had a similar negative impact because they were staunchly defended by fellow Republicans. ``` But it doesn’t matter, the media is what it is and Obama has to take it into account. He needs to craft a performance that appeals not just to swing voters but to media pundits like Chris Matthews and Andrew Sullivan because ultimately it will be the media filter that will shape what voters think about his performance. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/31 "2012-10-16T20:33:13Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > He also argued that there was a “hack gap” and that conservative pundits wouldn’t have savaged their candidate if the roles were reversed. I agree with that. There is no doubt about it. They universally praised Ryan and criticized Biden after the VP pretty much wiped the floor with the challenger. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/32 "2012-10-16T21:50:17Z")
Not a fan of Obama by any means, but considering the alternative…he better kick some Mormon-butt 2nite. Big Time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/33 "2012-10-16T21:51:23Z")
Well, one thing we know is that both candidates are cowards: The problem is that the candidates want her to simply announce the name of the next person to ask a question and then shut up. That is clearly not what she has in mind. If a candidate is evasive or fails to answer the question, she wants to ask a follow-up question or try to pin the candidate down, much as Martha Raddatz did. The candidates don’t want this and agreed to it in a written memo. The only problem is that Crowley didn’t sign the memo and doesn’t feel bound to it. It will be interesting to see what happens if she asks a follow-up question. If a candidate says: I am here to answer audience questions and not yours" and Crowley, a very experienced reporter persists, we could have a real food fight. > **[ElectoralVote](https://electoral-vote.com/)** > > Track the election with a red/blue map of the US updated daily using the latest state polls. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/34 "2012-10-16T21:57:28Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > There is no doubt about it. They universally praised Ryan and criticized Biden after the VP pretty much wiped the floor with the challenger. Except he didn’t 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/35 "2012-10-16T22:08:12Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Except he didn’t 😛 You can keep insisting that your fair-haired boy performed well, but he really didn’t. Biden kicked his butt so hard that the Republican talking heads still say Biden was mean. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/36 "2012-10-16T22:19:38Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > You can keep insisting that your fair-haired boy performed well, but he really didn’t. Biden kicked his butt so hard that the Republican talking heads still say Biden was mean. [Polling data says otherwise.](http://pollingreport.com/wh12.htm) Pretty much a tie. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/37 "2012-10-16T22:28:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [Polling data says otherwise.](http://pollingreport.com/wh12.htm) Pretty much a tie. Yes, polling broke pretty evenly along party lines. Major surprise. Meanwhile, among actual undecided voters, [Biden lead Ryan by nearly 20 points.](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/) He also flipped the assumptions undecided voters had going into the debate, meaning they went from thinking highly of Ryan and not-so-highly of Biden to the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/38 "2012-10-16T22:42:20Z")
Since I know I’m voting Obama, I won’t watch. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/39 "2012-10-16T22:43:46Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > Yes, polling broke pretty evenly along party lines. Major surprise. Nope. Americans are pretty evenly split between R-D-I. It’s not just R-D. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, among actual undecided voters, [Biden lead Ryan by nearly 20 points.](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/) He also flipped the assumptions undecided voters had going into the debate, meaning they went from thinking highly of Ryan and not-so-highly of Biden to the opposite. That’s nice, but it’s still just a tiny portion of the debate audience. CNN gives undecideds as 10%. I’m not going to let 10% of the audience decide who won. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/40 "2012-10-16T22:46:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nope. Americans are pretty evenly split between R-D-I. It’s not just R-D. > That’s nice, but it’s still just a tiny portion of the debate audience. CNN gives undecideds as 10%. I’m not going to let 10% of the audience decide who won. Unless the debate changes those who have already made up their minds, the undecided voters are the ones in play, and by definition, are the ones who decide who won. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=3)