# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/521 "2012-10-17T03:08:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Regarding time, I have a theory about why it seems that Romney is more disrespectful even though Obama gets more time: > > Romney wants to have the last word, can’t stand to let an argument go unchallenged, so he keeps trying to get a chance to talk last. The moderators don’t like him trying to get another block of time, so they argue with him. > > Obama speaks in multi-paragraph essays, and (tonight at least) always felt like he was bringing it back around to his point. When it sounds like someone has been building up to a conclusion, it’s a lot harder to cut them off. > > Obama goes over more, while Romney asks for more occasions to speak. The latter is more obvious than the former. > > This theory is totally backed up by no evidence at all. Perhaps as a legislator Obama learned how to play the “I’m totally just wrapping it up here” move with the chairperson. Meanwhile, as a CEO, Romney learned the “I sign your paychecks, so you’ll give me as much time as I need” maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/522 "2012-10-17T03:09:01Z")
Well, I have to call that one a win for Obama. Had there been no other debate before this, it would have been closer to a wash, or maybe a slight Obama win. But given where the respective bars were, and how much Romney needed to maintain the narrative that came out of the last debate that Obama was detached and in over his head, Obama came back big, and that’s going to give him lots of momentum coming out of this debate. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/523 "2012-10-17T03:09:15Z")
The right-wing echo machine’s gonna have to come up with a new outrage tomorrow. Obama killed the Benghazi story dead tonight, while Romney pooped his pants over it. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/524 "2012-10-17T03:09:30Z")
When Romney talked about how the Obama campaign is saying mean things about him, I wanted Obama to say something like: “Look, I am not the one who said he said that 47% of the people feel they are victims and are entitled. He said it; It’s on tape. Yes, I’ll admit that after that tape was released, we ran an ad. And, you want to know what we said in that ad? We didn’t say a thing. We just rolled the tape! Not to provide some out-of-context quote…No, we rolled the tape and let it keep rolling for the whole [45 (insert actual value)] second soliloquy. If Governor Romney doesn’t want us to use his speeches in our ads, maybe he should think a little bit harder before he says these things.” ---
**Author:** ![montag01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@montag01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montag01)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/525 "2012-10-17T03:09:56Z")
As someone who thought Romney dominated Obama in the first debate, I believe Obama destroyed Romney this time around. And Romney’s vague “I know how to do it”/“I know how \_\_\_\_ works” must surely be (or become) a drinking game. I don’t recall him using that construct in the first debate (perhaps I was too distracted by Obama’s zombie-like performance). In this one it was very jarring, and came across as bland special pleading. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/526 "2012-10-17T03:11:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m gonna guess more aggressive than a couple of weeks ago, but not Luther-aggressive, if you know what I mean. He brought a bit of his inner [Luther](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qv7k2_lc0M), and we are better for it. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/527 "2012-10-17T03:11:26Z")
Post game interview with Candy on CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/528 "2012-10-17T03:12:10Z")
So… any official polls out yet? Looks like Obama is gaining on Intrade - he’s back up to 64% after being at, IIRC, 60% yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/529 "2012-10-17T03:12:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Clear win for Obama tonight. He hit Romney in all his vulnerable spots, was clear and concise, stayed on topic more. Romney kept on missing opportunities, kept avoiding direct answers to questions, and wanted to go back to subjects the debate had already moved on from. > > On style at least, Romney did okay. He was as alert and articulate as he was at the first debate, but this time was taking on an Obama who was on his game. > > Best debate performance by Obama, ever. I wouldn’t give Obama that much credit. I think he wins a split decision, but not one that will budge the polls. He was helped by the most biased moderator in debate history and I believe that anyone but Obama partisans can see that. She hijacked Romney’s best opportunity over Libya and handed Obama his “for an AWB before he was against it” line. She should never moderate another debate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/530 "2012-10-17T03:12:43Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > The right-wing echo machine’s gonna have to come up with a new outrage tomorrow. Obama killed the Benghazi story dead tonight, while Romney pooped his pants over it. Hardly. Romney failed to hurt him over it, but the media’s got the bit in its collective mouth now. Plus, Obama accepted full responsibility, which on the positive side is Presidential, but on the negative side, well, he’s fully responsible. And his high dudgeon about the accusations of lying are going to bite him once the media fact checks him. Someone ordered Jay Carney and Susan Rice to lie for two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/531 "2012-10-17T03:12:46Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > “Remember that Mitt is the guy that said 47% of Americans are losers.” > > Paraphrased but that’s the gist. What else could he have said? It’s a line that writes itself. “Victims,” not losers. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/532 "2012-10-17T03:12:47Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > The right-wing echo machine’s gonna have to come up with a new outrage tomorrow. Obama killed the Benghazi story dead tonight, while Romney pooped his pants over it. That’s what Senator John Kerry, Mitt Romney’s debate stand in, said in the spin room on CNN. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/533 "2012-10-17T03:16:11Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I’ve occasionally wondered what would happen if they just … lost it. Say, right in the middle of the debate, a coincidental consilience of conditions just correct to cause craziness in the candidates. Obama suffers a neurological reaction to prednisone (or something); Romney undergoes a disorienting petit-mal seizure with temporary amnesia. > > Filled with rage he can no longer discern the reasons for, Obama leaps on Romney and Romney returns fire. For the split second it takes secret service to separate them, they’re screaming and spitting and smashing and tearing at each other’s hair. Black eyes and bite marks. Torn neckties. > > Would the country ever live it down? Dunno. But man, it would’ve been awesome. Yeah, I’d pay money to see something like that - not actual violence, but one of the candidates going off on a purple face, spittle flecked, vein throbbing personal attack. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/534 "2012-10-17T03:16:40Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > She hijacked Romney’s best opportunity over Libya Wait–his best opportunity over Libya was to say something incontrovertibly untrue? Me, I’m delighted to live in a world where a candidate gets immediately called out by the impartial press when they get a straight-up fact wrong. So, obviously, was the audience. Obama, however, was clearly smelling blood, and maybe he wishes she hadn’t interjected. His whole “proceed, Governor” line, was the line of a dude who knew his opponent was only going to hang himself further. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/535 "2012-10-17T03:17:55Z")
Romney should have done better, definitely. He actually did great on the immigration question but a bit poor on the Libya question, partly due to moderator. Otoh, Obama told some outrageously large lies. Can’t see this doing much to budge the polls. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/536 "2012-10-17T03:18:14Z")
Actually, Crowley was wrong. She just scanned the transcript for “acts of terror” without checking the context. Obama did not call the attack on the consulate an act of terror. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/537 "2012-10-17T03:18:55Z")
I think Romney and conservatives generally may have misled too often about the Libya response that Romney got confused about what actually happened. He seemed not to know that the President called it an act of terror on September 12. > [@adaher](#): > > Actually, Crowley was wrong. She just scanned the transcript for “acts of terror” without checking the context. > > Obama did not call the attack on the consulate an act of terror. Why do you think he was talking about attacks of terror not shaking our resolve? Just a non-sequitur? That’s nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/538 "2012-10-17T03:19:34Z")
CBS Poll of undecided voters: 37% say Obama won, 30% Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/539 "2012-10-17T03:20:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Wait–his best opportunity over Libya was to say something incontrovertibly untrue? > > Me, I’m delighted to live in a world where a candidate gets immediately called out by the impartial press when they get a straight-up fact wrong. So, obviously, was the audience. > > Obama, however, was clearly smelling blood, and maybe he wishes she hadn’t interjected. His whole “proceed, Governor” line, was the line of a dude who knew his opponent was only going to hang himself further. Reporter Jim Acosta just asked Senator Rob Portman, Barack Obama’s stand-in, on how Candy Crowley corrected Governor Mitt Romney on the President’s Rose Garden statement. Portman equivocated, mentioning something about the UN admbassador or someone saying it wasn’t a terrorist attack because of a YouTube video. Mutually exclusive? What is going on here? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/540 "2012-10-17T03:21:29Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I’ve occasionally wondered what would happen if they just … lost it. Say, right in the middle of the debate, a coincidental consilience of conditions just correct to cause craziness in the candidates. Obama suffers a neurological reaction to prednisone (or something); Romney undergoes a disorienting petit-mal seizure with temporary amnesia. > > Filled with rage he can no longer discern the reasons for, Obama leaps on Romney and Romney returns fire. For the split second it takes secret service to separate them, they’re screaming and spitting and smashing and tearing at each other’s hair. Black eyes and bite marks. Torn neckties. > > Would the country ever live it down? Dunno. But man, it would’ve been awesome. > [@bengangmo](#): > > Yeah, I’d pay money to see something like that - not actual violence, but one of the candidates going off on a purple face, spittle flecked, vein throbbing personal attack. I’d pay double if they did it in spandex skimpies in a tank of lime jello. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=28)