# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/801 "2012-10-17T15:32:48Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > [CNN](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/16/breaking-cnn-poll-obama-edges-romney-in-debate/?hpt=hp_t1) has it basically tied. > > I thought it was tied watching at home. The polling generally agrees with that. > > Those of you who thought Obama decisively won: I bet you thought he tied the last one and were surprised by the results. This is blatant psychological projection. You should maybe play it a little closer to the vest. Or don’t–maybe you’ll learn after being wrong so many times that people in general don’t think like you. Plenty of people do–but plenty of people don’t. Your speculation isn’t compatible with what the polls show about how people judged the two debates. A great majority believed Romney won the first one. That great majority has to include a substantial number of Obama supporters. Indeed, the talky/bloggysphere on the left was in general saddened agreement that Obama lost the first debate. Not tied–lost. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/802 "2012-10-17T15:33:01Z")
On a side note, Gallup should also be beaten and shot for finding these so called “undecided” voters. What undecided voters cheer when Crowley hits Romney with a left hook? If you were truly undecided, wouldn’t you have listened to that exchange politely to see how it played out? And, I’m not saying that they are in the tank for Obama, though. On their post debate town hall with “undecided” voters, more than half said Romney won and three members of the panel used the term “job creators.” It seems as if strong partisans attempt to get in these panels and debates and Gallup does a terrible job of screening them out… ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/803 "2012-10-17T15:34:15Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Wow, is this is annual “Gigantic Strawman Contest”? I only brought a few bales, so I think it will be at a disadvantage. > > Seriously, try and argue against what your opponents actually say. It’s an analogy. You’re saying two distinct things about Crowley which contradict each other, much as Obama-haters (R U 1?) attempt to claim he’s ineffectual and dictatorial both at once. It just them look very, very stupid, though that doesn’t seem to deter much from claiming “But he’s both! He’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping!” ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/804 "2012-10-17T15:34:16Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > You must have missed this… And you must have missed every other freaking post. How long did it take you to trawl through these threads to find the one post that kindasorta supported you while staunchly ignoring everything else? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/805 "2012-10-17T15:34:36Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > You must have missed this… I have puzzled over this post for several seconds. (That’s a long time!) I can not figure out why you posted the quote from **spazurek**. I don’t know what point you think you’re making by posting it. Can you help me out here? ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/806 "2012-10-17T15:34:53Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes, it is. It reminds me of the Republican who shouted out “You lie!” at Obama during a speech. It steals the moment, and most of the talk afterwards will be about that, not the substance of the debate. > > The two candidates were debating an issue and the moderator entered the fray to take one of their sides. This would be outrageous even if she was right. But to make matters worse, she was factually incorrect. She didn’t “take a side,” she simply provided a fact. She was not “factually incorrect.” Surely you can do better than regurgitating Sean Hannity lines. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/807 "2012-10-17T15:35:45Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What undecided voters cheer when Crowley hits Romney with a left hook? Ones who care about facts. Can you _try_ to see past the partisanship for a few seconds, please? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/808 "2012-10-17T15:36:09Z")
Oh Good Lord, I can’t believe people are trying to rewrite reality so that Mitt wound up not sticking his foot in his mouth when he claimed Obama didn’t label it “an act of terror” for nearly two weeks. Aside from the fact that he did call it an act of terror the next day, yes, over the next few days the administration when asked if this had been part of a mob action as a result of the Muhammad video or a co-ordinated terrorist act and they said they were investigating. That’s what the authorities are supposed to do, and it wasn’t initially clear that it wasn’t a mob action the same as happened in Egypt and later happened in Yemen. In fact, if one wants to go over threads here on the SDMB, you’ll notice multi-page long threads where people were blaming the reaction of Muslims to the Muhammad video for the death of Ambassador Stevens and saying things like with the death of an American Ambassador can we no longer tolerate what thin skins Muslims have blah, blah, blah. Sure, we can look back at it now and it’s obvious that it was a co-ordinated terrorist attack by Al-Quaeda, but it wasn’t initially obvious that was the case. In fact, the reaction of most people on the Dope initial response was to think it a riot connected the reaction to the video. You certainly can’t blame the administration for making sure they had their ducks all lined up before ruling out the possibility that it was a riot that went even more out of control. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/809 "2012-10-17T15:36:16Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Read my posts. 788. CNN has it seven points to Obama overall and tied with people who are yet to make up their minds. Far from the ass kicking of the last debate, which was what I was responding to. So it’s not a tie. Obama clearly won based on the polling so far. Maybe not by as large a margin as Romney won by in the 1st debate, but he won pretty clearly nontheless. Calling it a tie is just wrong, if you’re going by the polls. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/810 "2012-10-17T15:36:31Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > So a reasonable punishment for this would be to interrupt him over twenty times, never let him have the last word on a question, ask biased questions, give Obama more talking time overall, let Obama go over on every question and then actually jump into the debate on the side of his opponent? Can I borrow some of you straw? C’mon, she treated them basically the same, the Libya thing notwithstanding. And again, what were the loaded questions you’re talking about, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/811 "2012-10-17T15:37:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You just agreed with me. Maybe he didn’t say it every single time (or most of the time)- but Romney was harping upon him for _not using that phrase_, but he did. If one wishes to argue that Pepsi is better than Coke, one cannot make the primary point of attack be an assertion that Coke has a funny green color. I can plainly look and see that it does not. Similarly, I can plainly look at the transcript and see that Obama characterized the attack as an act of terror during his speech in thr Rose Garden. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/812 "2012-10-17T15:38:33Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > On a side note, Gallup should also be beaten and shot for finding these so called “undecided” voters. What undecided voters cheer when Crowley hits Romney with a left hook? It wasn’t an anti-Romney clap. It was a pro-getting-facts-straight clap. They’d have clapped, I think, in much the same way, had she been correcting Obama instead about something. BTW I think the moment was an awkward one and wasn’t well handled by Crowley. It appears to me she did overstep the bounds of what her understood role was. I can say that now that I’ve finally watched the thing. > [@](#): > > It seems as if strong partisans attempt to get in these panels and debates and Gallup does a terrible job of screening them out.. I forget now the nature of the research, but I once read a pretty convincing article that seemed to show that the number of true undecideds is vanishingly small. There may be almost none of them, in fact, among those who are mentally competent and minimally aware of politics. The votes of those who call themselves “undecided” can be pretty easily and reliably predicted. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/813 "2012-10-17T15:39:29Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Geesus, What the fuck is the difference between “acts of terror” and “terrorism”? He said it in the Rose Garden. DEAL with it. It happened the day after the attack. > Are the Repubs so stupid as to think that if it was an act of terrorism that Obama had to go in with guns blazing before finding out the full situation? Doesn’t it make sense to understand the full extent of the security breech and why it didn’t happen? Would the request for heightened security for the Embassy in Tripoli and not a compound in Benghazi have anything to do with it? Would the confluence of violent acts and protests have anything to do with what happened here? > > And then ask yourself How fucking long did it take W to react after 911? I’ll wait. > > Let’s not foget that Romney stood out there and accused the President of being uncaring, imbecile running off to a Vegas fundraiser. It’s okay to insult the President when he just lost great people that he felt a responsibility to? I know you quoted me, but I think you did so mistakenly as your remarks have nothing to do with my post. My last word on the moderator is that yes, I think it was a slip up, not a calculated attack. I think even Candy knew it was inappropriate as soon as she said it. On the debate as a whole, I give Obama a slight edge, but not a floor mopping victory. Romney’s performance was all over the map. He ranged from very strong on some points (economy, employment) to pretty weak on others (foreign policy). Obama, on the other hand, was more consistent throughout. He managed to avoid any really low points. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/814 "2012-10-17T15:42:25Z")
I want my binder full of women! ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/815 "2012-10-17T15:46:43Z")
I found it amusing that when asked how he would differ from Bush that Romney tried to play it off as if the W Bush presidency was a different time, a different era, a different generation, a different set of problems, etc. (4 years ago:rolleyes:) but when asked how he would get things done he reached back over 20 years and said he’d do things like Reagan:D ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/816 "2012-10-17T15:47:13Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > In fairness, Romney is only a candidate, so it’s more debatable where he stands than Obama who has a clear track record of failure for Romney to attack. Failure? He has plunged America into recession, nationalized businesses, and instituted death panels while laying the groundwork for an Islamic coup. Or something, I can’t keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/817 "2012-10-17T15:47:45Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > This is blatant psychological projection. You should maybe play it a little closer to the vest. Or don’t–maybe you’ll learn after being wrong so many times that people in general don’t think like you. Plenty of people do–but plenty of people don’t. > > Your speculation isn’t compatible with what the polls show about how people judged the two debates. A great majority believed Romney won the first one. That great majority has to include a substantial number of Obama supporters. Indeed, the talky/bloggysphere on the left was in general saddened agreement that Obama lost the first debate. Not tied–lost. Are there typos in this or are you arguing with me about Obama losing the first debate? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/818 "2012-10-17T15:50:42Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > And you must have missed every other freaking post. How long did it take you to trawl through these threads to find the one post that kindasorta supported you while staunchly ignoring everything else? That’s an OP of an entire thread dedicated to the topic at hand. Click the link and it will bring you to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/819 "2012-10-17T15:52:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Are there typos in this or are you arguing with me about Obama losing the first debate? In small words: Most Democrats agreed that Obama lost the first debate. You said Democrats considered the first debate a tie. You offered a single post to prove this. You seem not to be aware that there can be some Democrats who believe it was a tie without making the first statement wrong. Democrats do not have to agree 100%. ETA: Are you saying the fact that it was the OP to a thread lends it extra weight? Perhaps I will start a Pit thread shortly. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/820 "2012-10-17T15:54:26Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > It’s an analogy. It’s a really bad one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=42)