# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/841 "2012-10-17T16:23:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So cherry picking one part of a single poll = tied. > > Gotcha. It was the first hit I got in Google news. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/842 "2012-10-17T16:24:02Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I know you wish the few of us that are still here that disagree with you would just leave and have this be another Democratic Underground. Sorry. Not going to happen. Today anyway. I’d like it if we had someone who brought coherent points from the right side of the spectrum, rather than Glen Beck-Foxnews-Drudge Report talking points that are illogical at best, and incoherent or false at worst. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/843 "2012-10-17T16:24:32Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It was the first hit I got in Google news. So it’s Google’s fault you gave a lousy cite? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/844 "2012-10-17T16:26:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Do ya think that just might have been because Romney was not playing by the rules and NEEDED interrupting? Or in your world, can Romney just do whatever the hell he want’s because… what? Jim Lehrer let him get away with it last time? Because he’s a CEO and therefore the boss? Obama went over his time far more often than Romney. He just wasn’t penalized for it. If Romney was the one pushing the rules so much why did Obama have a longer speaking time not just at the end but throughout the entire debate? He was already a couple minutes ahead just after the first few questions. It was Obama that needed interrupting, not Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/845 "2012-10-17T16:27:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It was the first hit I got in Google news. Sorry, being the “First hit in google news” does not lend your comment additional accuracy or veracity in my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/846 "2012-10-17T16:27:53Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > So it’s Google’s fault you gave a lousy cite? That was in response to the claim that I “cherry picked” the cite. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s in line with all the other polling I’ve seen today. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/847 "2012-10-17T16:28:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It was the first hit I got in Google news. We are all humbled by your in depth research. Here’s what’s going to happen- the initial reaction was a clear Obama win. That is going to be multiplied in the next several days as more people debate the debate. The polls are going to shift a bit Obama’s way. Then next week they will debate foreign policy. While I’m sure Mitt will gladly steamroll a kindly old fellow like Bob Schieffer, he has no ammunition to fire. What’s he going to talk about? Libya. Yeah, that worked so well last night. His European Clown Circus from August? I got it- Obama’s Apology Tour. Except that Bob may ask for a specific instance where Obama apologized. Then Mitt will shit his pants. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/848 "2012-10-17T16:28:49Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > I guess CNN was trying to rewrite reality when they published [this](http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/20/world/africa/libya-investigation/index.html) on Sept. 21st? “Terrorist attack”? Sure - the administration had not used those words at that time. They were claiming the attack sprang out of a protest over the video. “Act of terror”? Obama himself used that term the very next day. That was Romney’s mistake, claiming the president had not used a specific phrase that he did in fact use. Had he merely stuck with the talking point - that the Administration was blaming the videos primarily and not calling it a premeditated attack - he would have been perfectly fine. But he fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/849 "2012-10-17T16:28:50Z")
I don’t even understand what point the Romney is trying to make. Can someone please explain to me why this is what they are hanging their hat? Seriously, when it comes to Benghazi there are reasonable questions about how security was handled, for example. But, instead they decide to launch an attack, wrongly, on the word terror and terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/850 "2012-10-17T16:29:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sorry, being the “First hit in google news” does not lend your comment additional accuracy or veracity in my eyes. Nor was it meant to. Do you really not know that I was responding to someone accusing me of cherry picking my poll? Are you just reading my posts and looking for anything to pick at without even pretending to care about context? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/851 "2012-10-17T16:30:12Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Obama went over his time far more often than Romney. He just wasn’t penalized for it. If Romney was the one pushing the rules so much why did Obama have a longer speaking time not just at the end but throughout the entire debate? He was already a couple minutes ahead just after the first few questions. It was Obama that needed interrupting, not Romney. Perhaps because Obama was speaking in longer paragraphs and was summing up a point, rather than changing topics entirely and trying to deflect. A moderator tends to interrupt when someone is wandering aimlessly off topic. You’ll note that when Obama was going off topic, talking about education and teachers during (I think) a gun control question, Crowly shut him down. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/852 "2012-10-17T16:30:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Essentially this is a Rovian tactic being pushed by right-wing blogs and Fox news. Take Romney’s disgusting comments and try to bury them by manufacturing an outrage that Obama did not label it a terrorist act fast enough, or he used the wrong words, or simply lie that he said nothing. Make up some shit so that Obama cannot use Romney’s disgusting words and half-cocked stupidity against him. The trouble is that Rove and his little flying monkeys are going to have their hands full trying to squelch all of their guy’s outbursts of half-cocked stupidity: 1. The Libya gaffe (compounded by Obama’s smooth “please proceed” closing of the trap) 2. The _Women In Bindage: Fifty Shades Of Mitt_ moment where he revealed that his plan to reach out to wimmenfolk is to show his sensitivity to their need to rush home to take care of the kids and get supper on the table 3. The “green cards stapled to your college diploma for some, self-deportation for others” solution to the problem of “illegals” 4. “I came through small business.” Uh… yeah. Eh, teh stoopid makes my brain hurt, so I’ll quit here. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/853 "2012-10-17T16:34:08Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I don’t even understand what point the Romney is trying to make. Can someone please explain to me why this is what they are hanging their hat? Seriously, when it comes to Benghazi there are reasonable questions about how security was handled, for example. But, instead they decide to launch an attack, wrongly, on the word terror and terrorism? My WAG is that they are trying very hard to regain their one-untouchable lead on issues related to terrorism. They are doing so by trying to undermine the administrations victories against Al Qaeda and paint him as a weak leader who can’t even call terrorism by it’s name when he sees it. It also provides some grounding to the insinuation (ongoing since his election) that Obama will take the side of Muslims, even terrorists, in foreign relations. It’s a classic “attack their strength” ploy, but I actually think it’s an unhealthy distraction for Romney right now. He is on much sounder ground hammering the economic situation, gas prices, jobs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/854 "2012-10-17T16:43:42Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > “Terrorist attack”? Sure - the administration had not used those words at that time. They were claiming the attack sprang out of a protest over the video. > > “Act of terror”? Obama himself used that term the very next day. > > That was Romney’s mistake, claiming the president had not used a specific phrase that he did in fact use. Had he merely stuck with the talking point - that the Administration was blaming the videos primarily and not calling it a premeditated attack - he would have been perfectly fine. But he fucked up. Yeah…Romney fucked up his wording. I personally don’t see the difference between a terrorist attack and an act of terror. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/855 "2012-10-17T16:43:52Z")
I go to print media (or SDMB!) to learn about the issues, so the debate’s value for me is to observe debating styles. If I understand the format, each 5-minute segment was divided as 2 minutes each plus a 1-minute “exchange guided by the moderator.” I saw Romney consistently monopolizing those 1-minute exchanges: he continually interrupted Obama, but acted indignant when Obama interrupted him. Is this what others saw? My reaction (which I think would be the same if my partisan alignment were reversed) is that Romney was an obnoxious jerk. My question: Did the “average” viewer see Romney’s interrupting as obnoxious … or as the “manly forcefulness” we want in a leader? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/856 "2012-10-17T16:44:36Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I don’t even understand what point the Romney is trying to make. At this point, it’s about not having to admit they simply made all that shit up, as part of a completely-predictable Fox effort to portray Democratic leaders as soft on national security. Romney can no longer disavow it or rise above it, not without calling his base a bunch of fools at best, so all he can do is try to brazen it out. The same goes for the tired “apology tour” lie, that he trotted out once again at the end. Obama didn’t (have the chance to) respond to it, but no doubt you’ll hear about it on Monday at the foreign-policy debate. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/857 "2012-10-17T16:46:20Z")
For anyone interested in a [more dispassionate review of the timeline](http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/10/15/1014241/timline-benghazi-attack/?mobile=wp) on the Benghazi post-attack discussion, here’s one from Think Progress. What’s nice is they give enough context to show where our right wing friends are cropping things or dissembling. I continue to find the “scandal” unremarkable, and just another in the long sad line of “-gates” that conservatives have been desperately grasping for. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/858 "2012-10-17T16:46:21Z")
How about when asked about the math of his tax proposal… “Well of course they add up. I was- I was someone who ran businesses for 25 years and balanced the budget.” Is it just me or is this just plain arrogance? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/859 "2012-10-17T16:49:10Z")
Neither, just a talking point. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/860 "2012-10-17T16:49:30Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Yeah…Romney fucked up his wording. I personally don’t see the difference between a terrorist attack and an act of terror. Please cite specifically what wording Romney fucked up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=44)