# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/861 "2012-10-17T16:52:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because the Republicans want everyone to be terrified. They want everyone terrified that the Muslim hordes are going to show up any time now and kill us all… Led by the Biggest Baddest Muslim of them all: Barak Obama. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/862 "2012-10-17T16:54:57Z")
One exchange that I really enjoyed, that isn’t getting as much press this morning, was when Obama laid out the math of Romney’s plan and asked if the Governor would hire somebody with such a “sketchy” plan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/863 "2012-10-17T16:56:51Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > It’s an analogy. You’re saying two distinct things about Crowley which contradict each other, much as Obama-haters (R U 1?) attempt to claim he’s ineffectual and dictatorial both at once. It just them look very, very stupid, though that doesn’t seem to deter much from claiming “But he’s both! He’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping!” You win the thread. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/864 "2012-10-17T16:57:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Please cite specifically what wording Romney fucked up. Romney said “act of terror” which was the exact wording Obama used as a vague afterthought at the end of his Rose Garden speech the day after the attack. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/865 "2012-10-17T17:01:44Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Personally, I like the fact that the President’s diplomatic team waited until all the facts are in. You can lie in a campaign like Mitt Romney, but when you do it in the Oval Office, it can become an international incident. This. Times ten. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/866 "2012-10-17T17:04:55Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Romney said “act of terror” which was the exact wording Obama used as a vague afterthought at the end of his Rose Garden speech the day after the attack. It was not a vague afterthought. [Read the transcript.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/17/1145757/-Libya-Another-Act-of-Terror-Obama-s-Rose-Garden-Speech-9-12-2012) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/867 "2012-10-17T17:07:20Z")
“…we will update you shortly with more details. Thank you…oh and ‘act of terror’” _drops mike_ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/868 "2012-10-17T17:07:35Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This. Times ten. To the tenth power. When you have an unfolding incident in a nation with a fledgling government, the thing to do is make sure you know what you’re talking about and how to best say it before you open your big mouth. Romney was under no constraints, he was able to try to score political points while the bodies were still warm. You can’t do that as president, and you shouldn’t do that while running for president. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/869 "2012-10-17T17:08:24Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Romney said “act of terror” which was the exact wording Obama used as a vague afterthought at the end of his Rose Garden speech the day after the attack. That’s not a fuck up in wording. He was quoting back what Obama had just said immediately before him. His problem was two fold. First, he was ignorant of the facts ( not knowing that Obama did indeed say that). Secondly, and more critically, he chose to follow a bunch of right wing morons down a superficial line of argument around what point a particular label has been applied. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/870 "2012-10-17T17:11:17Z")
Stolen from Daily Kos: Mitt Romney says that instead of equal pay, women should be allowed to go home so that they can make dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/871 "2012-10-17T17:14:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > For anyone interested in a [more dispassionate review of the timeline](http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/10/15/1014241/timline-benghazi-attack/?mobile=wp) on the Benghazi post-attack discussion, here’s one from Think Progress. What’s nice is they give enough context to show where our right wing friends are cropping things or dissembling. > > **I continue to find the “scandal” unremarkable** , and just another in the long sad line of “-gates” that conservatives have been desperately grasping for. This is where I am. I really don’t care when they knew it was a planned attack. I liked watching Obama hold Egypt’s feet to the fire for their lack of response. I even got a little excited thinking that congress might shut down all ‘aid’ to every country in the region. But then it turned out to be a terrorist attack instead. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/872 "2012-10-17T17:17:15Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > It was not a vague afterthought. [Read the transcript.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/17/1145757/-Libya-Another-Act-of-Terror-Obama-s-Rose-Garden-Speech-9-12-2012) Of course it was. He talks about the YouTube video near the beginning of his speech and does not mention the word terror until near the end…and very vaguely. He deliberately did not specifically call the attack an “act of terror” but refers to vague"acts" of terror that will not shake our resolve. Make no mistake that his wording is very deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/873 "2012-10-17T17:18:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I don’t feel like digging through the transcript… Here are the debate subjects, and a brief comment on each as to which candidate I think the subject, _in and of itself_, would be more helpful. As we all know, a candidate will chose to answer whatever question he wants, rather than the question actually asked. To try to decide which are better for a candidate once he starts talking would be, I think, impossible, so I make no attempt to do so. 1. College graduates and employment - Offers Romney a chance to stress high unemployment 2. Role of Energy Dept in lowering gas prices - Offers Romney a chance to stress high gas prices 3. Romney tax cut - Offers Obama a chance to stress the nebulous nature of Romney’s proposed loopholes/deductions 4. Workplace inequality - Offers Obama a chance to stress the signing of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act 5. Question regarding Bush failings and how Romney is different - Offers Obama a chance to stress poor economy when taking office 6. Questioner wants to know why he should vote for the president - This could go either way, Obama stressing successes and Romney the president’s failures 7. Immigrants without green cards - Offers Obama a chance to stress the Dream Act 8. Libyan security - Offers Romney a chance to stress security failures 9. Availibility of assualt weapons - Offers Romney a chance to stress NRA support and an opening for mentioning the “Fast and Furious” investigation 10. Outsourcing and how to keep jobs in the US - Offers Obama a chance to stress perceived problem’s with Romney’s Bain career 11. Biggest misperception of each candidate - No comment on this wasted question. Naturally there are discussions of issues that favor each party. This seems like a good balance to me and I think disputes the idea that the questions were loaded overall in anyone’s favor. > [@](#): > > But this is all qualitative . The quantitative evidence is even more damning. She interrupted Romney 26 times and Obama only nine times, despite the fact that Obama spoke 9% more and was almost always given the last word. It comes down to why a candidate was interrupted, and there’s is NO WAY I’m going back through the debate to figure this out. One viewing is enough. 🙂 Maybe there is something here, maybe not. Feel free to analyze each interruption and state your findings here. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/874 "2012-10-17T17:20:52Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > That’s not a fuck up in wording. He was quoting back what Obama had just said immediately before him. His problem was two fold. First, he was ignorant of the facts ( not knowing that Obama did indeed say that). Secondly, and more critically, he chose to follow a bunch of right wing morons down a superficial line of argument around what point a particular label has been applied. It’s a fuck up in wording. Plain and simple. Apparantly “acts of terror” and “terrorist attack” have different meanings. If Obama wanted to imply that this was an act carried out by terrorists then he would not have mentioned the YouTube video and would not have sent Susan Rice out to all the Sunday news shows to tell us that the attack was “spontaneous” when they knew it was not. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/875 "2012-10-17T17:24:15Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > It’s a fuck up in wording. Plain and simple. Apparantly “acts of terror” and “terrorist attack” have different meanings. If Obama wanted to imply that this was an act carried out by terrorists then he would not have mentioned the YouTube video and would not have sent Susan Rice out to all the Sunday news shows to tell us that the attack was “spontaneous” when they knew it was not. I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about how Mitt fucked up at the debate. You appear to want to have a different discussion. Mitt didn’t misspeak. He misthought, misknew and misstrategized. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/876 "2012-10-17T17:25:25Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > The whole point of terrorism is to make a big splash with your big bad act of violence. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because the Republicans want everyone to be terrified. That’s why it suits them to have the general election at Halloween instead of at Christmas… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/877 "2012-10-17T17:28:18Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Of course it was. He talks about the YouTube video near the beginning of his speech and does not mention the word terror until near the end…and very vaguely. He deliberately did not specifically call the attack an “act of terror” but refers to vague"acts" of terror that will not shake our resolve. Make no mistake that his wording is very deliberate. There is no mention of the video in the transcript. [QUOTE=President Obama] No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. [/QUOTE] How is this vague? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/878 "2012-10-17T17:31:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about how Mitt fucked up at the debate. You appear to want to have a different discussion. Mitt didn’t misspeak. He misthought, misknew and misstrategized. Don’t be sorry. You quit debating with your last pathetic partisan post. As soon as you typed “right wing morons” I knew you were not interested in debate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/879 "2012-10-17T17:34:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > If I understand the format, each 5-minute segment was divided as 2 minutes each plus a 1-minute “exchange guided by the moderator.” I saw Romney consistently monopolizing those 1-minute exchanges: he continually interrupted Obama, but acted indignant when Obama interrupted him. Is this what others saw? I listened to it on the radio, which adds an interesting perspective (by removing some perspective!) and it sounded like both guys were interrupting with equal frequency, but Romney did it more loudly (or Obama stopped talking when he did). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/880 "2012-10-17T17:34:41Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > It’s a fuck up in wording. Plain and simple. Apparantly “acts of terror” and “terrorist attack” have different meanings. I never thought I’d hear something sadder than an attempt to parse the meaning of “is”, but here it, well, is. In any case, no amount of retroactive spin will change the fact that Mitt getting an instant fact-check fail made him look like a class clown getting sent to the principal’s office. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=45)