# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/881 "2012-10-17T17:34:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That’s why it suits them to have the general election at Halloween instead of at Christmas… Halloween: is that when the 47% go around begging for scraps of food and the 53% pretend to be scared? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/882 "2012-10-17T17:37:00Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Don’t be sorry. You quit debating with your last pathetic partisan post. As soon as you typed “right wing morons” I knew you were not interested in debate. Wait a minute, there is a big difference between “right wing morons” and “morons who are right wing”. Check the transcript. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/883 "2012-10-17T17:37:03Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There is no mention of the video in the transcript. From the transcript: “Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.” I assume the part about denigrating religious beliefs of others is a reference to the video. > [@runner pat](#): > > How is this vague? Speeches like this are mulled over and rewritten numerous times with the full knowledge that every single word or phrase will be parsed. If Obama wanted to call this a terrorist attack he would have done so outright and probably near the beginning of the speech. The term “acts of terror” is deliberately vague and seems to refer to any and all acts generally as opposed to this particular event. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/884 "2012-10-17T17:38:56Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Don’t be sorry. You quit debating with your last pathetic partisan post. As soon as you typed “right wing morons” I knew you were not interested in debate. Psst. I wasn’t really sorry in an apologetic way. Also noted by some at DailyKos, Mitt’s reply on the equal pay for women question was “I recognize that if you’re going to have women in the workforce that sometimes they are going to have to be more flexible.” “If” you’re going to? Really? This is optional? We ought to put a stop to this! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/885 "2012-10-17T17:39:36Z")
Okay, I’ll play along. What’s the difference between a terrorist act and and a terrorist attack? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/886 "2012-10-17T17:39:42Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I never thought I’d hear something sadder than an attempt to parse the meaning of “is”, but here it, well, is. > > In any case, no amount of retroactive spin will change the fact that Mitt getting an instant fact-check fail made him look like a class clown getting sent to the principal’s office. I’m not the one parsing it. If you bothered to read my earlier posts I said that I don’t see the difference between the two phrases. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/887 "2012-10-17T17:41:49Z")
**yorick** , seriously, what point are you trying to make that is any way worthwhile? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/888 "2012-10-17T17:42:34Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > It’s a fuck up in wording. Plain and simple. Apparantly “acts of terror” and “terrorist attack” have different meanings. If Obama wanted to imply that this was an act carried out by terrorists\*\* then he would not have mentioned the YouTube video\*\* and would not have sent Susan Rice out to all the Sunday news shows to tell us that the attack was “spontaneous” when they knew it was not. > [@yorick73](#): > > From the transcript: “Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.” > > \*\*I assume the part about denigrating religious beliefs of others is a reference to the video. > \*\* > > Speeches like this are mulled over and rewritten numerous times with the full knowledge that every single word or phrase will be parsed. If Obama wanted to call this a terrorist attack he would have done so outright and probably near the beginning of the speech. The term “acts of terror” is deliberately vague and seems to refer to any and all acts generally as opposed to this particular event. Bolding mine. So did he or did he not mention the video? You assume that the phrase “denigrating religious beliefs of others” is a reference to the video without actually being specific but there’s a difference between “acts of terror” and “act of terror.” ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/889 "2012-10-17T17:42:46Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > If Obama wanted to call this a terrorist attack he would have done so outright and probably near the beginning of the speech. The term “acts of terror” is deliberately vague and seems to refer to any and all acts generally as opposed to this particular event. And thus did the right wing jump the shark. Three weeks to the election and all that will be discussed is “acts of terror” vs “terrorist attacks”. Not unemployment, or the deficit, or raising taxes, or gun control: all areas where Obama might be vulnerable. So, what will Michelle wear to the inaugural ball? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/890 "2012-10-17T17:44:54Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > **yorick** , seriously, what point are you trying to make that is any way worthwhile? If Yorik takes it axiomatic that Obama is wrong, then there must be a reason, no matter how weird or silly that supports that. Fairly common on the right. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/891 "2012-10-17T17:47:46Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Bolding mine. So did he or did he not mention the video? > > You assume that the phrase “denigrating religious beliefs of others” is a reference to the video without actually being specific but there’s a difference between “acts of terror” and “act of terror.” He was vague on both issues. Why…I have no idea. Perhaps he was hedging. At that point maybe he did not have enough information. The disturbing trend is the next two weeks when the administration tried to pin this on some obscure filmmaker. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/892 "2012-10-17T17:50:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Psst. I wasn’t really sorry in an apologetic way. > > Also noted by some at DailyKos, Mitt’s reply on the equal pay for women question was “I recognize that if you’re going to have women in the workforce that sometimes they are going to have to be more flexible.” > > “If” you’re going to? Really? This is optional? We ought to put a stop to this! And, of course, it’s only women who need flexibility. No men who might want to go to a teacher conference, or make dinner, or stay home with a sick kid. It’s the price you pay, I guess, if you hire _women._ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/893 "2012-10-17T17:51:02Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > He was vague on both issues. Why…I have no idea. Perhaps he was hedging. At that point maybe he did not have enough information. The disturbing trend is the next two weeks when the administration tried to pin this on some obscure filmmaker. Obscure filmmaker? Sure, but the fact is that the film clearly incited anger across the Middle East, including in Libya. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/894 "2012-10-17T17:51:03Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > It’s a fuck up in wording. Plain and simple. Apparantly “acts of terror” and “terrorist attack” have different meanings. If Obama wanted to imply that this was an act carried out by terrorists then he would not have mentioned the YouTube video and would not have sent Susan Rice out to all the Sunday news shows to tell us that the attack was “spontaneous” when they knew it was not. More than that, Romney didn’t bring it up. His initial response was good and didn’t mention any quote. It was Obama, on a follow up question about the buck stopping with Clinton that brought it up: > [@](#): > > OBAMA: Secretary Clinton has done an extraordinary job. But she works for me. I’m the president and I’m always responsible, and that’s why nobody’s more interested in finding out exactly what happened than I do. > The day after the attack, governor, I stood in the Rose Garden and I told the American people in the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. That this was an act of terror and I also said that we’re going to hunt down those who committed this crime. This was a trap. Romney jumped on it because clearly that isn’t what the message was of the campaign for the first ten days after the attack. But Obama’s people found that one line and used it well. They basically caught him in a definition of the word “is” snare. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/895 "2012-10-17T17:51:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, I’ll play along. What’s the difference between a terrorist act and and a terrorist attack? [Terrorist attack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks) [Terrorist act](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTsQng-70o) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/896 "2012-10-17T17:51:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Also noted by some at DailyKos, Mitt’s reply on the equal pay for women question was “I recognize that if you’re going to have women in the workforce that sometimes they are going to have to be more flexible.” > > “If” you’re going to? Really? This is optional? We ought to put a stop to this! It depends on the state of the economy – when it picks up sufficiently, employers are going to be so hard-pressed to hire people that they’ll even let _women_ in. Mitt explained that quite clearly. (He never did get around to answering the original equal-pay question, though. Admittedly, he may not have had necessary information, such as whether or not companies can count the cost of spraying for girl cooties toward payroll.) ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/897 "2012-10-17T17:52:07Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Obscure filmmaker? Sure, but the fact is that the film clearly incited anger across the Middle East, including in Libya. After Obama brought it to worldwide attention, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/898 "2012-10-17T17:53:01Z")
Frankly, my biggest annoyance at Mitt was his revival of the lame, long- and fully-discredited “Apology Tour” bullshit. That piece of craven dishonesty ought to immediately disqualify him from the office of the President. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/899 "2012-10-17T17:55:33Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > It’s a fuck up in wording. Plain and simple. Apparantly “acts of terror” and “terrorist attack” have different meanings. If Obama wanted to imply that this was an act carried out by terrorists then he would not have mentioned the YouTube video and would not have sent Susan Rice out to all the Sunday news shows to tell us that the attack was “spontaneous” when they knew it was not. > [@Debaser](#): > > After Obama brought it to worldwide attention, yes. Weren’t the crowds in Cairo protesting the video the day before the attack in Libya? Also, it was the _Libyans_ who told on-scene reporters that the video was the reason for the riot. Good for the administration to wait until all the facts were known. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/900 "2012-10-17T17:56:37Z")
It wasn’t an apology tour, it was a tour of apology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=46)