# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/901 "2012-10-17T17:56:58Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > After Obama brought it to worldwide attention, yes. Wow, did Obama kidnap the Lindbergh Baby too? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/902 "2012-10-17T17:58:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Weren’t the crowds in Cairo protesting the video the day before the attack in Libya? Also, it was the _Libyans_ who told on-scene reporters that the video was the reason for the riot. Good for the administration to wait until all the facts were known. No, very bad. Remember this maxim: “When in danger or in doubt, Run in circles, scream and shout.” This is known in Pubbieland as an appropriate and measured first response. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/903 "2012-10-17T17:58:49Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > After Obama brought it to worldwide attention, yes. Um, no, that isn’t what happened, [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_of_Muslims): > [@](#): > > Videos dubbed in the Arabic language were uploaded during early September 2012,[9] and were promoted by Morris Sadek by email and on the blog of the National American Coptic Assembly.[10] On September 9, 2012, an excerpt of the YouTube video was broadcast on Al-Nas TV, an Egyptian Islamist television station. Demonstrations and violent protests against the film broke out on September 11 in Egypt and Libya, and spread to other Arab and Muslim nations and some western countries. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/904 "2012-10-17T18:01:03Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Of course it was. He talks about the YouTube video near the beginning of his speech and does not mention the word terror until near the end…and very vaguely. He deliberately did not specifically call the attack an “act of terror” but refers to vague"acts" of terror that will not shake our resolve. Make no mistake that his wording is very deliberate. Yeah, deliberatly not rushing to conclusions and waiting until the facts came in. It is also becoming clear that the video may have in fact incited the militant group to attack and that it may have only been planned a few hours in advance. That’s pretty spontaneous when it comes to military action, I think. ([link](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/us/politics/questions-and-answers-on-the-benghazi-attack.html?_r=1&hp)) ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/905 "2012-10-17T18:03:29Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Also, it was the _Libyans_ who told on-scene reporters that the video was the reason for the riot. That’s just the thing. There wasn’t a riot. It didn’t happen. It was either a mistake or a lie to claim there was a riot depending on how much you trust the administration. There was an organized terror attack in Libya on 9/11/2012, not a mob rioting. No one disputes this anymore. I guess we can put to bed the argument that Obama Administration couldn’t possibly have been hoping to deceive the American people about the nature of the attack since there’s someone right here in this thread who still insists that some riot took place, rather than an organized and planned terror attack. Have you been reading the thread? You should make some effort to have knowledge of the basic facts before participating. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/906 "2012-10-17T18:04:55Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Weren’t the crowds in Cairo protesting the video the day before the attack in Libya? Also, it was the _Libyans_ who told on-scene reporters that the video was the reason for the riot. Good for the administration to wait until all the facts were known. My guess is friend Debaser isn’t hung up on facts and reality. Attack Obama with every breath, ignore the details. Rinse, later, repeat. Edited to add: What the fuck are you even talking about, Debaser? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/907 "2012-10-17T18:09:31Z")
There was a public protest used as a cover for the attack. I know that the juxtaposition of a large angry crowd of protestors and a violent attack might lead some to jump to the conclusion that it was a riot but not the likes of you, sir, oh no, you saw right to the truth of the matter. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It depends on the state of the economy – when it picks up sufficiently, employers are going to be so hard-pressed to hire people that they’ll even let _women_ in. Mitt explained that quite clearly. > > (He never did get around to answering the original equal-pay question, though. Admittedly, he may not have had necessary information, such as whether or not companies can count the cost of spraying for girl cooties toward payroll.) To quote Peggy Seeger > [@](#): > > Oh, but now the times are harder and me Jimmy’s got the sack; > I went down to Vicker’s, they were glad to have me back. > But I’m a third-class citizen, my wages tell me that > But I’m a first-class engineer! > > The boss he says “We pay you as a lady, > You only got the job because I can’t afford a man, > With you I keep the profits high as may be, > You’re just a cheaper pair of hands.” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/908 "2012-10-17T18:10:12Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > That’s just the thing. There wasn’t a riot. > > It didn’t happen. It was either a mistake or a lie to claim there was a riot depending on how much you trust the administration. > > There was an organized terror attack in Libya on 9/11/2012, not a mob rioting. No one disputes this anymore. In fact there is plenty of dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/909 "2012-10-17T18:12:17Z")
I liked some of the debate tweets: Summary of Debate: “I can create jobs if you make me the head of government, which cannot make jobs.” - Mitt Romney “One of the things I find most troubling about Obamacare is my inability to decide whether or not to take credit for it.” - Romney ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/910 "2012-10-17T18:14:14Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > There was an organized terror attack in Libya on 9/11/2012, not a mob rioting. No one disputes this anymore. There was no riot in Libya at all? This is literally the first time I’ve heard this. I tried several Google searches using variations on “Libya riot,” but I haven’t found anything that indicates that there were no riots at all. What source am I missing for this story? ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/911 "2012-10-17T18:14:20Z")
Libya seemed like workplace violence to me. Just going by Fort Hood. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/912 "2012-10-17T18:15:38Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > If Obama wanted to call this a terrorist attack he would have done so outright He did. In the part where he called it an “act of terror.” Since when are “acts of terror” confined only to actions of al Qaeda anyway? Is mob violence not terroristic? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/913 "2012-10-17T18:15:44Z")
Today’s [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/10/17/debate-president-obama-and-mitt-romney-leave-out-libya-details/RctYXwbiSV2NoznKJgVSVP/story.html) > [@](#): > > During a congressional hearing last week, State Department officials said there was no video protest in Benghazi. > > While Obama did call the attack an act of terror almost right away, for days afterward his administration also provided an account of events in Benghazi that proved false. Can we at least agree on the basic facts of the matter before we start debating the motives of those involved? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/914 "2012-10-17T18:17:52Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Today’s [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/10/17/debate-president-obama-and-mitt-romney-leave-out-libya-details/RctYXwbiSV2NoznKJgVSVP/story.html) > > Can we at least agree on the basic facts of the matter before we start debating the motives of those involved? > > Sheesh. You mean to say that we should gather and evaluate the evidence before rushing to assign labels? ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/915 "2012-10-17T18:20:15Z")
The chances that Candy would admit wrongdoing if there was none at Obama’s expense is as likely as her not going for a fifth trip to the Golden Corral buffet line. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/916 "2012-10-17T18:21:54Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > The chances that Candy would admit wrongdoing if there was none at Obama’s expense is as likely as her not going for a fifth trip to the Golden Corral buffet line. Yes. Because Candy Crowley has a clear track record of being in the bag for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/917 "2012-10-17T18:23:04Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > The chances that Candy would admit wrongdoing if there was none at Obama’s expense is as likely as her not going for a fifth trip to the Golden Corral buffet line. Wow. That’s just downright nasty. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/918 "2012-10-17T18:25:34Z")
This debate was certainly more lively than the first one. I think Obama eeked out a small victory. It wasn’t a slam dunk, though. Obama had a few great moments, but he petered off towards the end, and there were a few questions where he just kind of segued into general talking points that were only peripherally related to the question. And the one time he really insisted going over time because ‘it’s important’ he didn’t really have anything important to say. Romney came across as an arrogant douche a lot of the time. When he stayed on point, he did OK, but he was way too overbearing in his fights with the moderator. Most of the supposed instances of her “interrupting” him were when he went over time and refused to concede the floor. And his first answer was silly. “How will you make me feel more secure about job opportunities?” “Jobs are important! I love job! I haz all the jobs!” Sure, you like jobs… but how? The whole “acts of terror” thing was silly. It’s clear that Obama was correcting Romney about his actual quote, and then Romney clarified that he was talking about the two weeks thing, and at that point Obama let him continue without correcting him. And the moderator made the same point, the same clarification, that Obama’s quote was correct, but that the two weeks thing was also correct. This was all just clarifying a point, making clear as to what they were referring to, and there’s no actual thing to get worked up about. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/919 "2012-10-17T18:26:42Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Yes. Because Candy Crowley has a clear track record of being in the bag for Democrats. "Near the end of her program State of the Union, and well after a somewhat contentious interview with Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz) that dealt with amongst other things the recent national security leaks controversy, Crowley stated, “Usually you kind of give the President a pass on leaking confidential stuff” https://www.youtube.com/embed/xkTQC-FlF3U?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/920 "2012-10-17T18:27:16Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Today’s [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/10/17/debate-president-obama-and-mitt-romney-leave-out-libya-details/RctYXwbiSV2NoznKJgVSVP/story.html) Ah, adding “State department” to the search criteria got me a lot more hits. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=47)