# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/981 "2012-10-17T20:42:26Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > But re the Libya “act of terror” is not terrorism. Seriously, what is the difference between the two, and where do you see that, prior to the manufactured outrage over the supposed difference, anyone acknowledged such a difference? ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/982 "2012-10-17T20:43:16Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > I don’t remember what they claim is the equivalent of “pastor”. I’m guessing bishop, but it could be stake president. Romney has been both. Ah, here it is in the [Gospel Principles](http://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-17-the-church-of-jesus-christ-today?lang=eng&query=ephesians+pastors) lesson manual: > [@](#): > > The Church was organized with the same offices as were in the ancient Church. That organization included apostles, prophets, seventies, evangelists (patriarchs), pastors (presiding officers), high priests, elders, bishops, priests, teachers, and deacons. These same offices are in His Church today (see [Articles of Faith 1:6](http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.6?lang=eng#5)). “Bishops” is listed separately from “pastors (presiding oficers)”, so apparently it refers to stake presidents and perhaps some lower auxillary presidents.[/tangent] ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/983 "2012-10-17T20:55:25Z")
“Binder? I just met her!” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/984 "2012-10-17T20:59:51Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > This act-of-terror vs. terrorist-attack is the same sort of out-of-context grammar nitpicking that went on with “you didn’t build that”. I think the conservatives need to spend a class or two in reading comprehension. It’s not the same. In the case of “you didn’t build that,” the people who picked up on that statement knew what Obama was saying; they just saw the opportunity to pull those words out of context and use them against him. In this case it appears some people really are reading the text of the Libya statement and actually cannot comprehend what appears to me to be reasonably plain English. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/985 "2012-10-17T21:16:06Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > You are absolutely wrong. Full stop. I guess this has been beaten to death, but how about one more post on it. Perhaps a simple example, devoid of grammatical rules or explanatory statements, might change your mind. What if George W Bush had made the following statement shortly after Sept. 11, 2001? > [@Altered Obama Statement](#): > > No **acts of terror** will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn over _three thousand_ Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done. It’s of course an altered version of Obama’s recent Rose Garden speech (see italics). Would you assume he was making a general statement about terrorist acts, or about the specific WTC attacks? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/986 "2012-10-17T21:16:11Z")
From **Anduril** : I know you love your idol so much that it pains you that he’s being attacked. But you have to let go of your idolatry of Obama before it’s too late. Thus spaketh the guy slavishly repeating Fox News talking points…is too funny! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/987 "2012-10-17T21:19:33Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > From **Anduril** : I know you love your idol so much that it pains you that he’s being attacked. But you have to let go of your idolatry of Obama before it’s too late. > > Thus spaketh the guy slavishly repeating Fox News talking points…is too funny! This is the kind of behavior I was describing earlier. No more of this, please. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/988 "2012-10-17T21:19:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > To answer the question that **Debaser** , **OMG** , _et al_ won’t bother to look up, the answer is… > > 26 days. > > [9-11 Review: The 2001 Attack on Afghanistan](http://911review.com/motive/afghanistan.html) > > Note that Bush waited 9 days after the attacks to even demand of Aghanistan, etc, to hand Taliban and Al Qaeda suspects over. Thank you John T. If the Obama administration takes longer than a day to respond, Williard will be there with his spit stained talking points. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/989 "2012-10-17T21:21:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ah. Since it was so many hours ago, there’s little likelihood that it will shed any light on the matter, but could you share the search terms that you used, which resulted in that being the first hit? > > 'Cos, you _might have_, you know, cherry-picked your terms in an effort to make a “tied” result be one of the top hits. If you say you didn’t, I’ll certainly take you at your word, of course. But I’d like to know that you’re actually saying it, and sharing your search terms _could_ inoculate you against a charge that you’re deluding yourself about your own motives. > [@Debaser](#): > > Really? > > :rolleyes: Yes, really. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/990 "2012-10-17T21:28:13Z")
Missed the edit window: Or not, if this line of discussion goes contrary to what **Marley23** was just talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/991 "2012-10-17T21:34:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Since it was so many hours ago, there’s little likelihood that it will shed any light on the matter, but could you share the search terms that you used, which resulted in that being the first hit? To be fair, for a long time now this sort of test has been largely irrelevant. Google’s search algorithms are so personalized that (even when you are not logged into your Google account) it draws heavily on the profile they’ve built up of you to [present the results it’s expected you _want_ to see](http://www.business2community.com/content-marketing/the-boy-in-the-filter-bubble-0303928). ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/992 "2012-10-17T21:36:26Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > To be fair, for a long time now this sort of test has been largely irrelevant. Google’s search algorithms are so personalized that (even when you are not logged into your Google account) it draws heavily on the profile they’ve built up of you to [present the results it’s expected you _want_ to see](http://www.business2community.com/content-marketing/the-boy-in-the-filter-bubble-0303928). Yeah, the Straight Dope didn’t suddenly become one of the top ten message boards in the world in the past two years 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/993 "2012-10-17T21:44:50Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > I think it’s amusing that the process Romney claims he followed in filling government positions with more women–he reviewed the “qualified” applicants, saw that they were all men, and then made a “concerted effort” to go and find more women–is the textbook definition of Affirmative Action, something his party has strongly opposed for decades. > > “Binders of women” aside, he actually makes a good case for AA here (if he’s telling the truth, which I doubt). _then made a “concerted effort” to go and find more women–_ So all five of Romney’s multiple personalities got together in order to hire more women? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/994 "2012-10-17T21:45:48Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > So I guess we should let women go home any time they are in a bind? I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/995 "2012-10-17T21:52:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This was another thing that stuck out at me. Romney kept emphasizing the need for employers to be ultra-flexible when it comes to hiring women. Why? Because women need to go home at 5 pm to take care of their kids, he said. What seems lost on him is that this is a _parent_ issue. Last time I checked, both men and women can be parents, so flexibility in work times shouldn’t be made out to be a women’s issue. And not all women are mothers. We’re too far into the 21st century to be conflating the female gender with motherhood. > > Also, he naively seemed to think getting businesses to hire women is what is at issue. > [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/16/transcript-second-presidential-debate/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/16/transcript-second-presidential-debate/) > > You hear that ladies? Companies are going to be _so_ anxious to hire, so desperate in fact, that they’ll even hire YOU! There’s SO much wrong with what Mitt said on women in the workplace, but there’s something I found even simpler and even more headsmacky in his quote: > [@](#): > > Now, one of the reasons I was able to get so many good women to be part of that team was because of our recruiting effort, but number two, because I recognized that\*\* if you’re going to have women in the workforce\*\*, that sometimes they need to be more flexible. Hey Mitt, what’s this “IF” shit? Is hiring women somehow optional these days? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/996 "2012-10-17T21:55:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by MeanOldLady View Post > Okay, what the hell, man? Maybe I’m the only one who’s bothered by this, but they found the liliest white crowd of whites in the world, then they let this shiny negro\* in to ask “What have you done for me?” The hell was that? Apparently he confused POTUS with his personal life coach. “Shiny negro.” That’s so wrong. I’m still laughing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/997 "2012-10-17T21:58:36Z")
Didn’t mean to cross the line. Meant to point out the irony of the “obama worship” meme being _parroted_ by the right. Didn’t think I was being overly personal. Again, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/998 "2012-10-17T22:01:04Z")
Point of order: Obama referred to Benghazi as an act of terror _again_, [in Colorado](http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/13/remarks-president-golden-co), the day after the Rose Garden speech. [QUOTE=Barack Obama] Let me say at the outset that obviously our hearts are heavy this week – we had a tough day a couple of days ago, **for four Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Libya**. Yesterday I had a chance to go over to the State Department to talk to friends and colleagues of those who were killed. And these were Americans who, like so many others, both in uniform and civilians, who serve in difficult and dangerous places all around the world to advance the interests and the values that we hold dear as Americans. And a lot of times their work goes unheralded, doesn’t get a lot of attention, but it is vitally important. We enjoy our security and our liberty because of the sacrifices that they make. And they do an outstanding job every single day without a lot of fanfare. So what I want all of you to know is that we are going to bring those who killed our fellow Americans to justice. (Applause.) I want people around the world to hear me: \*\* To all those who would do us harm, no act of terror will go unpunished. \*\*It will not dim the light of the values that we proudly present to the rest of the world. No act of violence shakes the resolve of the United States of America. [/QUOTE] Can we put this “he never called it terror” thing to bed now? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/999 "2012-10-17T22:11:52Z")
I think righties are having a hard time figuring out if this the right time to complain, “Geez, wouldja drop this purely semantic issue and get back to real stuff like jobs, the economy, gas prices, abortion, anything but this tedious word-wrangling shit awready?” or to pull the double-down card of “I will die a martyr’s death on a fiery pyre before we let you get away with the claim that he didn’t say, or didn’t mean, the words ‘act of terror’ in the right way, or at the right time, or to the exclusion of other words.” I do enjoy watching them argue with themselves. If someone made a show called “Republicans in Agony” I’d watch it every night and twice on Sundays. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1000 "2012-10-17T22:20:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He did have a decent record at appointing women as governor of Massachusetts. Even that’s a slightly dubious claim: > [@](#): > > By the end of Romney’s term in Massachusetts, according to the University of Massachusetts Center for Women in Politics and Public Policy, the number of women in high-ranking positions was slightly lower than it was before he took office. The women he did hire were mostly in junior cabinet positions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=51)