# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1001 "2012-10-17T22:22:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Point of order: Obama referred to Benghazi as an act of terror _again_, [in Colorado](http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/13/remarks-president-golden-co), the day after the Rose Garden speech. > > Can we put this “he never called it terror” thing to bed now? Would that it were so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1002 "2012-10-17T23:00:02Z")
Well, we already did everything else: stake though its heart, cut its head off and stuffed its mouth with garlic, sewed up the lips, buried it at a crossroads, and burned the dog. Might was well try putting it to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1003 "2012-10-17T23:15:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, we already did everything else: stake though its heart, cut its head off and stuffed its mouth with garlic, sewed up the lips, buried it at a crossroads, and burned the dog. Might was well try putting it to bed. Yeah – this talking point makes Rasputin look like a delicate hothouse flower. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1004 "2012-10-17T23:33:30Z")
I’m always amazed at the bull crap the press manages to spew. I’ve been seeing stories about Romney’s so called gaffe “Binders of Women”. I didn’t give it a second thought during the debate. I automatically translated it as Binders of Women’s Resumes. Anyone with common sense knows thats what he was saying. It’s funny that in real life conversations we easily translate what someone is saying when they leave out a word. No big deal. But let a politician misspeak and the press is all over it like flies on a turd. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1005 "2012-10-17T23:35:11Z")
Though as has been proven a billion times in politics, sound bites matter, especially the ones that make you sound silly. Still, I do agree it’s sort of a shame; perhaps in a “better” world, the press would be concentrating on the fact that Romney was twisting the events he was talking about with the binder gaffe. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1006 "2012-10-17T23:42:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m always amazed at the bull crap the press manages to spew. I’ve been seeing stories about Romney’s so called gaffe “Binders of Women”. > > I didn’t give it a second thought during the debate. I automatically translated it as Binders of Women’s Resumes. Anyone with common sense knows thats what he was saying. > > It’s funny that in real life conversations we easily translate what someone is saying when they leave out a word. No big deal. But let a politician misspeak and the press is all over it like flies on a turd. I think that is a more organic meme that started in the blogosphere than something the press did. They are just reporting on it. But it is kinda silly. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1007 "2012-10-17T23:44:06Z")
I wouldn’t call it a “gaffe” per se. It just sounds very silly. I’ve read a few articles suggesting that the “binders of women” thing has blown up because it plays into a concern people already have about Romney, which is that he doesn’t value legislation regarding women and sees women primarily as objects. I don’t know about that. For me the weird thing about that statement was that it seemed to imply he had some kind of affirmative-action program for women in the state government. Also, the whole way he approached the topic: “If you’re going to have women working for you, you need to understand that they have to have flexible hours for childcare and dinner-making purposes” (paraphrased; I didn’t look up the specific wording). One: “If”? Two: How about flexible hours for everybody, because everyone potentially might have a family or other household obligations they need to work around? There’s nothing special about women that means they are more likely to need to get home to put dinner on the table. Or at least there shouldn’t be these days. His whole take on the subject seemed weirdly antiquated and out of touch, to my ears. So maybe that’s why people are latching on to the binder thing. Or maybe the thought of a binder full of women is just hilarious. (Maybe both.) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1008 "2012-10-17T23:44:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m always amazed at the bull crap the press manages to spew. I’ve been seeing stories about Romney’s so called gaffe “Binders of Women”. > > I didn’t give it a second thought during the debate. I automatically translated it as Binders of Women’s Resumes. Anyone with common sense knows thats what he was saying. > > It’s funny that in real life conversations we easily translate what someone is saying when they leave out a word. No big deal. But let a politician misspeak and the press is all over it like flies on a turd. In this day of social media-- Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, blogs-- the traditional media often reports on trends taking place _there_, especially when it comes to politics. That seems to be the driving force behind this. People are latching onto this weird turn of phrase organically, and so, sure, the media is picking up on that. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1009 "2012-10-17T23:54:58Z")
CNN reports that women’s senior positions dropped slightly during Romney’s time in office. Interesting. > **[Romney’s empty ‘binders full of women’ | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/10/17/opinion/cardona-binders-women/index.html?hpt=hp_c1)** > > Maria Cardona says Mitt Romney’s tone-deaf “binders full of women” remark betrays how out of touch he is with women’s equality issues. > [@](#): > > Romney told that story in an effort to demonstrate how well his administration had done in hiring women. Except it didn’t. A study by the University of Massachusetts and the Center for Women in Politics and Public Policy shows that the percentage of women in senior positions during his tenure actually declined. It went from 30% when Romney took office to 27% when he left and up to more than 33% after the new governor took over. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1010 "2012-10-18T00:04:33Z")
[QUOTE=MsWhatsit] One: “If”? Two: How about flexible hours for everybody, because everyone potentially might have a family or other household obligations they need to work around? There’s nothing special about women that means they are more likely to need to get home to put dinner on the table. Or at least there shouldn’t be these days. His whole take on the subject seemed weirdly antiquated and out of touch, to my ears. [/QUOTE] Tone deaf, too. What better way to show you’re for gender equality than to stereotype women as requiring special accommodations in the workplace that men don’t? That was brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1011 "2012-10-18T00:05:48Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > In this day of social media-- Twitter, Tumblr, Facebook, blogs-- the traditional media often reports on trends taking place _there_, especially when it comes to politics. That seems to be the driving force behind this. People are latching onto this weird turn of phrase organically, and so, sure, the media is picking up on that. Indeed. [This tumblr blog](http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/) was created before the debate had even finished. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1012 "2012-10-18T00:13:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m always amazed at the bull crap the press manages to spew. I’ve been seeing stories about Romney’s so called gaffe “Binders of Women”. Well, let’s see. It was an evasion of the question (which was about the equal-pay issue). It was a lie (Romney had been presented with the list from an outside source, not proactively reaching out to hire women as he would have you believe). And it’s a silly image that lends itself to a range of jokes and [Internet](http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/) [memes](http://magicbinderfullofwomen.tumblr.com/). What’s not to like? 😛 I suppose the “binder” thing was like the scratch around which the supersaturated solution of stupid\* condensed. \*One part “IF women are going to be working”. One part “my plan is to get the economy revved up until employers are desperate enough to even hire _girls_”. One part “See, I’m sensitive to women’s needs, particularly their need to get home early to take care of the kids and have supper on the table” ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1013 "2012-10-18T00:13:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, the whole way he approached the topic: “If you’re going to have women working for you, you need to understand that they have to have flexible hours for childcare and dinner-making purposes” (paraphrased; I didn’t look up the specific wording). That used to be one of the accepted reasons for why women were paid less than men. It was because they took more time off for the children. (I’ve never heard of the dinner making thing, but hey… maybe they needed to get off early to butcher the nights chickens as well) In my opinion, Romney screwed the pooch all the way around on the women issue. (a) Somehow, getting married to have children keeps AK47 wielding Drug Lords out of American. I still have no idea of how he slid that one in there… was he saying gay marriage and single moms cause automatic weapons to be traded to Mexico? (b) I took his request for more women candidates (told in response to equal pay) as him admitting that he was trying to reduce his payroll budget through cheaper labor. (c) The whole women/flexibility thing sounded like he isn’t aware that some men participate in parenting these days and it stunk to high heaven of the reasons that used to be given for paying women less for the same job. (d) Then, he’s going to make the economy come roaring back so strong that the poor employers will be _SO DESPERATE_ that they’ll \*have \*to hire women, what more can you ask for? Equal Pay? And, then he pretty much tossed the whole Catholic Church / Tea Party under the bus on the contraception thing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1014 "2012-10-18T00:25:13Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > (a) Somehow, getting married to have children keeps AK47 wielding Drug Lords out of American. I still have no idea of how he slid that one in there… was he saying gay marriage and single moms cause automatic weapons to be traded to Mexico? I’m pretty sure he meant something along the lines of: children raised in fatherless homes are more likely to have problems with delinquency, drugs, violence, and crime. More marriages = fewer fatherless homes = less crime, or something to that effect. Did you sincerely not understand the gist of that response, or are you just trying to be funny? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1015 "2012-10-18T00:27:26Z")
My Inner Spock raises one eyebrow and says “Fascinating”. The internet offers varieties of mass human behavior that is truly interesting, which is to say, puzzling. Its kind of the “people’s culture”, for good or ill, it springs up more or less from the mass behavior of people. It isn’t produced and offered for sale, it just happens. For reasons I cannot begin to fathom, some segment of our population finds those words funny, or insightful, or some goddam thing. And in seconds, all of those weirdos are connected and chattering, while the rest of us wonder what the fuck? I would love to see those people processed as a data sample. What are their unifying characteristics? Do they buy peanut butter more or less often than the rest of us? Would they prefer **Masterpiece Theater** or _Beavis and Butthead_? Are they mouth-breathers, or left handed? But most importantly, what the fuck? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1016 "2012-10-18T00:30:48Z")
Yeah, the “binders of women” thing seemed a lot more minor than the whole attitude of “To employ women you need to understand that they’ll be leaving work early every night to cook dinner.” Plus the contrast between Obama’s “I signed the Lilly Ledbetter Act”, and Romney’s “I once hired some women.” Romney’s answer just seemed so _trivial_. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1017 "2012-10-18T00:35:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure he meant something along the lines of: children raised in fatherless homes are more likely to have problems with delinquency, drugs, violence, and crime. More marriages = fewer fatherless homes = less crime, or something to that effect. Did you sincerely not understand the gist of that response, or are you just trying to be funny? Obama was raised in a fatherless home and look a what a loser he turned out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1018 "2012-10-18T00:35:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure he meant something along the lines of: children raised in fatherless homes are more likely to have problems with delinquency, drugs, violence, and crime. More marriages = fewer fatherless homes = less crime, or something to that effect. Did you sincerely not understand the gist of that response, or are you just trying to be funny? And that is why we don’t need to ban assault rifles? My question was serious. I heard the question, got distracted for a minute, then he was talking about getting married to have kids (with emphasis on the one man / one woman). I guess I’ll just have to find a transcript or an online post of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1019 "2012-10-18T00:42:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My Inner Spock raises one eyebrow and says “Fascinating”. The internet offers varieties of mass human behavior that is truly interesting, which is to say, puzzling. Its kind of the “people’s culture”, for good or ill, it springs up more or less from the mass behavior of people. It isn’t produced and offered for sale, it just happens. I think this is one of the best parts of the internet. It lets the entire country give a big fat INSTANT raspberry to someone for being an idiot and all the rest of the country gets to not only laugh along but add their own input. Since the binders comment struck SO MANY people as a strange disconnected remark, I’m guessing that it will live at least for the next week. Lets see how many people show up at Romney events with binders… The ultimate would be Big Bird bearing binders. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1020 "2012-10-18T00:46:52Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Yeah, the “binders of women” thing seemed a lot more minor than the whole attitude of “To employ women you need to understand that they’ll be leaving work early every night to cook dinner.” > > Plus the contrast between Obama’s “I signed the Lilly Ledbetter Act”, and Romney’s “I once hired some women.” Romney’s answer just seemed so _trivial_. And then Obama played the priceless “I’m the dad of two daughters…do I need to say anymore?” card. Romney can’t compete against that, not with that all-male clan of his. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=52)