# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1121 "2012-10-18T16:25:11Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > The difference between a “site” and a “cite” is enormous, though, and one you need to pay more attention to, instead of chalking it off an attempt at punning. When you provide a site, you’re merely pointing us to a location without necessarily vouching for its accuracy (though why bother if you can’t?) BUT when you give us a “cite” you are claiming that it is reliable and you are willing to stand by it. > > If you think the difference is trivial, that’s part of your problem: you don’t do your research and you argue on the basis of shit you don’t have any reason to believe is true other than that you want it to be. It’s pretty trivial, **prr**. He posted a link to a _site_, and presented that link as his _cite_. Then he made a little joke about it. He metabolizes oxygen, too, and probably requires liquid water in his environment to support life. He can’t be wrong about _everything_ he does. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1122 "2012-10-18T16:43:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Romney is proposing a tax reform plan quiet distinct from anything passed in the Bush years, and (while Bush and Obama have both _said_ that they’d reduce the deficit) he didn’t really reduce deficit spending. Romney promises he will (Whether it’s more Bush & Obama style campaign promises that won’t come to fruition will have to be seen). In the same way that it remains to be seen whether the sun will come up tomorrow, sure. Romney’s “plan” to reduce the deficit is pretty ridiculous: reducing income taxes while simultaneously keeping effective rates about the same. By the way, I hope you’ll stick around. You debate well and in good faith, and while the media may not be left-leaning the Dope could use some balancing. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1123 "2012-10-18T16:48:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In the same way that it remains to be seen whether the sun will come up tomorrow, sure. Romney’s “plan” to reduce the deficit is pretty ridiculous: reducing income taxes while simultaneously keeping effective rates about the same. There is the Bush trifecta because he’s also going to sky rocket defense spending and pick new wars. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1124 "2012-10-18T17:18:38Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Just so nobody forgets: Mitt Romney lied, and both Obama and the moderator called him on his lie. Anyone who believes that the moderator was unfair necessarily believes that the truth is unfair to Romney. Referees do more than keep time, they call fouls. Frankly I wish moderators did more of that, to both sides. I understnad it works against Romney because he has taken such inconsistent positions at different points of his campaign but frankly you should be able to deny saying what you said. It happened to both sides during the VP debate. It hurt Ryan more because he already had a reputation as a liar but the moderator also challenged Biden’s statements on the withdrawal from Afghanistan (you could tell that moderator wanted to moderate the third debate). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1125 "2012-10-18T17:25:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I rise to quibble. A minor point, perhaps, but that’s the trouble with quibbles… > > Who is “al Queda”? Perhaps more importantly, who isn’t? Thats like asking, who is the “tea party” Sure its a bit of a grassroots movement but I can create an organization and call it “the Northern Virginia Tea Party” But your point is well taken, these guys are terrorists either way and I should have focused on the fact that we don’t know enough to know how coordinated or pre-planned this attaack was. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1126 "2012-10-18T17:29:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You forgot “If I succeed it’s because I’m smart, tough shit for you, but if I fail, it’s your fault, so bail me out because I’m smart, tough shit for you.” Privatize the profits; socialize the losses. AKA “heads I win, tails you lose.” _I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the Bank. … You are a den of vipers and thieves._ -Andrew Jackson, 1834 ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1127 "2012-10-18T17:55:13Z")
> [@Romney](#): > > Can you help us find folks,’ and they brought us whole binders full of women No, [you didn’t ask them.](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/national-politics/20121017-binder-full-of-women-wasn-t-romney-s-idea-massachusetts-coalition-says.ece) This media fixation reminds me of Joe the Plumber, it turned out he wasn’t getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year, he isn’t a certified plumber, and his name isn’t Joe. It’s just so irrelevant to begin with but becomes funny when it’s revealed to be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1128 "2012-10-18T18:01:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > …I can create an organization and call it “the Northern Virginia Tea Party” [These guys](http://northernvirginiateaparty.com/) might shoot you if you did. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1129 "2012-10-18T18:07:56Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Just so nobody forgets: Mitt Romney lied, and both Obama and the moderator called him on his lie. Anyone who believes that the moderator was unfair necessarily believes that the truth is unfair to Romney. Unfortunately for you, and Obama, Romney was correct. First, the President lied, and then Crowley felt the need to open her yap and repeat the lie. You do realize you can look up what Obama actually said in the Rose Garden, don’t you? And if you want to see what he believes, just look at the U.N. speech two weeks later. Or any statement he made for two weeks following the attack. Obama has an exceedingly odd reluctance to call Islamic terrorism for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1130 "2012-10-18T18:09:11Z")
At least we have the answer for that other thread about Libya - right-wingers think Obama lied because he has a reluctance to call Islamic terrorism for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1131 "2012-10-18T18:09:32Z")
Are you kidding me? Obama grouped the attacks in Libya with other attacks in a context which he clearly referred to as “acts of terror.” This is obvious from the transcripts and videos. This nonsense about Obama being reluctant to call out Islamic terrorists smacks of desperation. You’re not getting any traction outside of the fact-free “conservative” echo chamber on this point. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1132 "2012-10-18T18:13:24Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Are you kidding me? It was in the talking points, so it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1133 "2012-10-18T18:16:46Z")
I would also recommend that anyone interested in this issue read the UN speech that **magellan** alluded to. I just read the transcript again and I think it’s an extremely well-state case against terrorist tactics and Muslim intolerance. You can find it here: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-2012-address-to-un-general-assembly-full-text/2012/09/25/70bc1fce-071d-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-2012-address-to-un-general-assembly-full-text/2012/09/25/70bc1fce-071d-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1134 "2012-10-18T18:16:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Unfortunately for you, and Obama, Romney was correct. First, the President lied, and then Crowley felt the need to open her yap and repeat the lie. You do realize you can look up what Obama actually said in the Rose Garden, don’t you? And if you want to see what he believes, just look at the U.N. speech two weeks later. Or any statement he made for two weeks following the attack. > > Obama has an exceedingly odd reluctance to call Islamic terrorism for what it is. Have you even read this thread? Here’s what Obama said **THE VERY NEXT DAY** in the Rose Garden: > [@](#): > > No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done. Here’s what Obama said [A DAY LATER](http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/13/remarks-president-golden-co) ABOUT THE ATTACK IN LIBYA when Obama was in Colorado: > [@](#): > > So what I want all of you to know is that we are going to bring those who killed our fellow Americans to justice. (Applause.) I want people around the world to hear me: To all those who would do us harm, no act of terror will go unpunished. It will not dim the light of the values that we proudly present to the rest of the world. No act of violence shakes the resolve of the United States of America. READ THE FREAKIN’ TRANSCRIPT. Simply repeating your belief that the president did not actually say these words makes your argument look beyond pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1135 "2012-10-18T18:17:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Unfortunately for you, and Obama, Romney was correct. First, the President lied, and then Crowley felt the need to open her yap and repeat the lie. You do realize you can look up what Obama actually said in the Rose Garden, don’t you? And if you want to see what he believes, just look at the U.N. speech two weeks later. Or any statement he made for two weeks following the attack. > > Obama has an exceedingly odd reluctance to call Islamic terrorism for what it is. So facts are utterly irrelevant to you, right? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1136 "2012-10-18T18:19:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You do realize you can look up what Obama actually said in the Rose Garden, don’t you? You know that people can look up, and even watch, what Obama said, and you’re trying to tell us that he didn’t actually say what he said? That’s just sad. But if you insist upon being sad, please continue… ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1137 "2012-10-18T18:20:51Z")
BTW, has Romney said anything about wanting to find out who did do this? Or is his only concern about whether or not they were called terrorists, or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1138 "2012-10-18T18:21:30Z")
Why read stuff when you’ve already been told something is true? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1139 "2012-10-18T18:21:35Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > BTW, has Romney said anything about wanting to find out who did do this? Eh, drop enough bombs and sooner or later we’ll get the bastards. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1140 "2012-10-18T18:21:59Z")
Last night on one of the news shows, The Ed Show I believe, Bob Strum and Michael Steele were arguing about the “Act of Terror” semantics and it sounded almost exactly like the arguments going on in this thread - which is to say that Steele sounded like a moron and Strum was just beside himself with frustration over how much of a moron Steele was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=56) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=58)