# The second presidential debate: 10/16/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847 "2012-10-16T04:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1201 "2012-10-18T21:57:41Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I have a theory as to why this is. [I have another](http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-vs-romney-gallup-poll-oct-5-results-2012-10): you need to wait a few days for the polls to reflect whatever the results of the debate were (if any). ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1202 "2012-10-18T22:03:00Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I just read it again. There were 13 paragraphs in Obama’s remarks. He mentions “act or terror” only once, immediately after talking about 9/11. I admit that a favorable interpretation can be made to have him referring to the attacks, but it’s certainly not clear. In fact it’s deliberately vague. First, you need to look up the definition of immediately. It comes two paragraphs later and after two mentions of the Benghazi attacks. You must have missed this the several other times it’s been pointed out. Second, it is unfortunate that it wasn’t clear. If only there was some way we could find out if the President meant to include Benghazi when he said “acts of terror” that day in the rose garden. Oh, how handy, here is the transcript from Tuesday’s debate, where the President says: _The day after the attack, governor, I stood in the Rose Garden and I told the American people in the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. That this was an act of terror and I also said that we’re going to hunt down those who committed this crime._ So glad to clear that up for you! Or are you contending that the President was lying during the debate when he said that he was referring to Benghazi as an act of terror that day in the rose garden? > [@](#): > > He was bending over backwards to NOT call them terrorists or a terror attack. And good thing because the collective orgasm from the right would have made quite a mess. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1203 "2012-10-18T22:03:46Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Romney wasn’t just talking about the Rose Garden speech. He said Obama actually did it twice in the first two days. But did he say it on a treadmill? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1204 "2012-10-18T22:04:19Z")
Okay, I finally listened to the debate. Listened, mind you, not watched. I have to say that you guys who are saying Obama trounced Romney must be smoking something. I’d give Obama a slight edge, so yeah, he won, but he definitely didn’t run away with it. As much as I can’t stand that obfuscating, flip-flopper Romney, he definitely held his own in the debate. Obama needed a decisive win and, I’m sorry, this wasn’t it. I think the perceptions of some folks here are skewed by how poorly Obama did in the first debate. Taken on its own however, this debate was almost a tie. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1205 "2012-10-18T22:15:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [I have another](http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-vs-romney-gallup-poll-oct-5-results-2012-10): you need to wait a few days for the polls to reflect whatever the results of the debate were (if any). Today would be the first day to track post-debate responses (Wednesday). ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1206 "2012-10-18T22:23:51Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Okay, I finally listened to the debate. Listened, mind you, not watched. I have to say that you guys who are saying Obama trounced Romney must be smoking something. I’d give Obama a slight edge, so yeah, he won, but he definitely didn’t run away with it. > > As much as I can’t stand that obfuscating, flip-flopper Romney, he definitely held his own in the debate. Obama needed a decisive win and, I’m sorry, this wasn’t it. I think the perceptions of some folks here are skewed by how poorly Obama did in the first debate. Taken on its own however, this debate was almost a tie. This was my take (which I think I may have mentioned earlier in the thread, but I’ll be damned if I’m going back to find it). I missed debate #1, so my expectations for Obama were in line with what we saw in 2008. And he met, and somewhat exceeded that. But I was expecting GOP-primary Romney which we clearly didn’t get. He was in full-on moderate mode. He didn’t even respond to the defund PP comments, and walked back (somewhat) self-deportation. Nothing about abortion. Didn’t attempt to attack the premise of the women’s pay question. And his tax plan sounds nothing like what he was pitching in the primary - it sounds almost reasonable if you don’t like math very much. It was an Obama win, but I doubt it moves the polls much. I think we’ll see a steady reversion to the O+1’ish pre-convention norm and a long election night where we sweat out Ohio and Colorado (and perhaps get a late-call in VA). See: 2004. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1207 "2012-10-18T22:26:10Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Okay, I finally listened to the debate. Listened, mind you, not watched. I have to say that you guys who are saying Obama trounced Romney must be smoking something. Or watched it on TV - because Obama looked very calm and confident on TV, while Romney looked nervous and shifty the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1208 "2012-10-18T22:28:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > All this babbling about how many angels can dance on the head of the pin, and it’s still forgotten that _Romney’s_ first response after the attack was to issue a completely ignorant and stupid statement about the White House saying something it didn’t say. That is in fact the entire _purpose_ of all the babbling. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1209 "2012-10-18T22:29:59Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > As long as Romney doesn’t come off as a disinterested knuckle dragger So, your theory depends on an assertion of fact that is clearly contradicted by the evidence, then. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1210 "2012-10-18T22:32:51Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Romney wasn’t just talking about the Rose Garden speech. He said Obama actually did it twice in the first two days. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But did he say it on a treadmill? Did he say it in a box? Did he say it live on Fox? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1211 "2012-10-18T22:35:22Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Today would be the first day to track post-debate responses (Wednesday). Gallup is a 7-day rolling average. You need to wait until next week to see the clearest picture of how the debate either helped (or didn’t help) Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1212 "2012-10-18T22:41:05Z")
ROMNEY: “I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.” Much better, right, conservatives? No problems with this, have you? Comparatively, Obama was a FAIL and Romney was an ATTABOY! ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1213 "2012-10-18T22:45:24Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Okay, I finally listened to the debate. Listened, mind you, not watched. I have to say that you guys who are saying Obama trounced Romney must be smoking something. I’d give Obama a slight edge, so yeah, he won, but he definitely didn’t run away with it. > > As much as I can’t stand that obfuscating, flip-flopper Romney, he definitely held his own in the debate. Obama needed a decisive win and, I’m sorry, this wasn’t it. I think the perceptions of some folks here are skewed by how poorly Obama did in the first debate. Taken on its own however, this debate was almost a tie. Video and audio-only are two different experiences with only a limited amount of overlap. Obama didn’t do as badly on the audio version of debate one, and Romney took a beating on the video version of debate two. See Nixon vs Kennedy for more details. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1214 "2012-10-18T22:53:19Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > ROMNEY: “I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.” > > Much better, right, conservatives? No problems with this, have you? Comparatively, Obama was a FAIL and Romney was an ATTABOY! Hey! Romney didn’t call the attackers terrorists! He didn’t even mention terrorist acts! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1215 "2012-10-18T22:55:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Hey! > > Romney didn’t call the attackers terrorists! He didn’t even mention terrorist acts! Nor would he for 14 more days. He must have been covering up! ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1216 "2012-10-19T00:32:37Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > ROMNEY: “I’m outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi. It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.” > > Much better, right, conservatives? No problems with this, have you? Comparatively, Obama was a FAIL and Romney was an ATTABOY! Almost 2 hours. _crickets_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1217 "2012-10-19T00:52:00Z")
> [@](#): > > …but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”… So, when Obama talks about hunting them down, that’s his way of showing sympathy for the terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1218 "2012-10-19T00:58:51Z")
[Snore](http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/gallup-vs-the-world/) > [@](#): > > The Gallup national tracking poll now shows a very strong lead for Mitt Romney. As of Wednesday, he was ahead by six points among likely voters. Mr. Romney’s advantage grew further, to seven points, when Gallup updated its numbers on Thursday afternoon. > > The Gallup poll is accounted for in the forecast model, along with all other state and national surveys. > > However, its results are deeply inconsistent with the results that other polling firms are showing in the presidential race, and the Gallup poll has a history of performing very poorly when that is the case. > > Other national polls show a race that is roughly tied on average, while state polls continue to indicate a narrow advantage of about two points for President Obama in tipping-point states like Ohio. The forecast has Mr. Obama as a narrow favorite in the election largely on the basis of the state polls. In addition, Obama is slaughtering Romney in the early voting, and the polls still have not rolled enough to reflect the debate. Don’t get too excited. Obama is still comfortably ahead, even with this Gallup outlier (which apparently reflects a heavy sample of Southern states), Obama is still showing a 65% probability of victory on Nate Silver’s scientific formula thingy. The Gallup will probably roll back to normal in a day or two. It’s out of step with the other polls. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1219 "2012-10-19T01:13:01Z")
Takes a while to unpack it all, lot of shit was said, and then there’s the “Did he really say what I think he said?” effect. Romney said at least four different things that I would dearly love every American to ponder for about ten minutes or so, maybe write a book report. The fact checkers are working overtime. This will be good for those that survive. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847/1220 "2012-10-19T01:13:45Z")
Democrats always do better than Republicans in early voting; that isn’t news. It’s similar to how Republicans do better at the actual polls on election day. It’d only be news if Obama weren’t ahead in early voting. The news, as far as early voting is concerned, is whether Obama is doing as well as he was among early voters in 2008. There’s strong evidence that he is not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-presidential-debate-10-16-2012/637847.md?page=62)