# The Second Stone is a piece of shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445 "2014-09-14T01:07:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/181 "2014-09-14T22:59:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > \*\* > You really are stupid\*\*, the report clearly says that the elevator recording was made by the security camera, the leaked video came from a cell phone recording of that security camera. Really? Man, I AM stupid. You got me there. No sarcasm intended. Anyway, the point is that since we haven’t seen the higher resolution video, we don’t know that he made a fist. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/182 "2014-09-14T22:59:30Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Hi, I’m MsWhatsit and this Pit thread is the first I’ve seen of this entire situation. Based entirely on the OP, yes, **The Second Stone** is a piece of shit. Based on his subsequent posts in the thread, **The Second Stone** is a HUGE piece of shit. > > To put this perhaps more eloquently, the OP had the effect of pointing to TSS’s post and saying, “Look. Look at this giant pile of shit that someone left in the middle of the sidewalk. What an asshole.” > > And then TSS came along and said, “Yeah, that’s my shit” and rubbed his face around in it a little bit and then ran around leaving his shitty face-prints all over nearby buildings and passersby. “Smell it! Smell my shit!” > > **Killing Time** is like the flies hovering nearby the pile of shit, thinking they’ve discovered something tasty when really all they’ve found is someone else’s giant pile of shit. _sniff_. This is a beautiful thing. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/183 "2014-09-14T23:00:30Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > **Killing Time** is like the flies hovering nearby the pile of shit, thinking they’ve discovered something tasty when really all they’ve found is someone else’s giant pile of shit. So clever. It’s hard to refute that barrage of logic. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/184 "2014-09-14T23:01:47Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > If she had died from that, do you think your batshit insane logic would be any defense to a charge of murder? Well it would be manslaughter, I think, but if you knew how to read, you would know that I ALREADY have said multiple times that I’m not defending him nor do I think he shouldn’t be held responsible for what happened. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/185 "2014-09-14T23:02:05Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > That doesn’t prove Ray Rice knocked out his fiance with the blow to the head. Did you watch the video? Are you not able to see her head hit a metal bar?:smack: We should blame Otis then. They are the ones that made that dangerous elevator they were in, aren’t they? Those railings, man, those things are _dangerous_. I can’t count the number of times I was in an Otis elevator, say to a coworker “hey, did you just run for Chinese food?” and BAM! The railing gets me in the head. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/186 "2014-09-14T23:07:05Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > We should blame Otis then. They are the ones that made that dangerous elevator they were in, aren’t they? > > Those railings, man, those things are _dangerous_. I can’t count the number of times I was in an Otis elevator, say to a coworker “hey, did you just run for Chinese food?” and BAM! The railing gets me in the head. So what you’re saying is that there is no difference between punching someone in the face hard enough to knock them out, and knocking them over so they accidentally hit their head on a metal bar? O.K., good to know. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/187 "2014-09-14T23:07:23Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > Really? Man, I AM stupid. You got me there. No sarcasm intended. > > Anyway, the point is that since we haven’t seen the higher resolution video, we don’t know that he made a fist. And I think that is mostly a moot point. [http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24705710/report-ray-rice-told-roger-goodell-that-he-hit-fiancee](http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24705710/report-ray-rice-told-roger-goodell-that-he-hit-fiancee) > [@](#): > > In an interview Tuesday with CBS Morning News, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said the league requested the surveillance video from the Atlantic City hotel where Ray Rice punched then-fiancée Janay Palmer in the face, “Because when we make a decision we want to have all the information that’s available. When we met with Ray Rice and his representatives it was ambiguous about what actually happened.” > > Thursday night, four sources told ESPN’s Don Van Natta Jr. that when Rice met with Goodell, he told the commissioner that he did in fact punch his fiancee. Incidentally the ESPN report mentioned that the video showed Rice punching Palmer in the face, it is really silly to ignore that that conclusion came also from the security people that saw the original video. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/188 "2014-09-14T23:10:39Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Sure, and all Zimmerman did was pull the trigger, the bullet actually did the killing. Same defective logic. Wait, you believe knocking someone over so that their head accidentally hits a metal bar is the “same logic” as aiming a gun at someone and pulling the trigger? Wow, that must be some really tasty Kool Aid you guys have. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/189 "2014-09-14T23:11:23Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > So what you’re saying is that there is no difference between punching someone in the face hard enough to knock them out, and knocking them over so they accidentally hit their head on a metal bar? O.K., good to know. She didn’t _accidentally_ hit her head. She was knocked into it - _intentionally_. If the hit was\* intentional\*, the results of the hit are deemed intentional. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/190 "2014-09-14T23:13:31Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > How I imagine them: > > [http://www.buzztorah.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/sockpuppet.jpg](http://www.buzztorah.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/sockpuppet.jpg) You know, I don’t think you’re giving them enough credit for their special snowflakeness of stupidity. YOU MONSTER. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/191 "2014-09-14T23:14:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And I think that is mostly a moot point. > > [http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24705710/report-ray-rice-told-roger-goodell-that-he-hit-fiancee](http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24705710/report-ray-rice-told-roger-goodell-that-he-hit-fiancee) > Incidentally the ESPN report mentioned that the video showed Rice punching Palmer in the face, it is really silly to ignore that that conclusion came also from the security people that saw the original video. O.K., fair enough. If the guy admitted it, that’s good enough for me. Personally, I think Rice is an asshole. But did he deliver a “knockout punch”? I still think that could be an exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/192 "2014-09-14T23:15:17Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I hate to parse this ugly thing and I imagine it won’t change your position an iota if you’ve already watched it 10,000 times. However if you look at the 24 second mark he clearly leans towards her face and you see her jerk back slightly with her right eye snapping shut - exactly like she had just been spit on. _Then_ she reacts furiously. You have a much better video feed than I do. Either that or your mind is filling in the blanks per your pre-conceptions. If you do have the clearer video, and the interviews with the witnesses, who were not in the elevator, I’d like to see them. Let me ask a hypothetical with similar facts. Two people of indeterminate sex are standing close in an elevator. One or both get angry. We don’t know why, but they do. One of them steps back and across the elevator. The other pursues and throws a punch. Is that okay? Under what circumstances is it okay? Next part, the person who has the punch thrown at them throws a punch back. Is that okay? Why or why not? ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/193 "2014-09-14T23:15:42Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > She didn’t _accidentally_ hit her head. She was knocked into it - _intentionally_. If the hit was\* intentional\*, the results of the hit are deemed intentional. Hmmm…don’t think that’s true. If that were the case, manslaughter would not exist as a legal term would it? There would only be first degree murder. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/194 "2014-09-14T23:16:29Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > I didn’t SAY it was excluded; I just said it wasn’t proven. What are you having so much fucking trouble understanding here? > > No, I think it’s just YOU who are confused. As you acknowledged how off base you were I only have to comment that no, I actually do check sources before coming to discussions like this one, and as Ray himself admitted that he did punch his then fiancée, I have to say that the evidence presented here shows who is the one that is really confused and with a lack of understanding. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/195 "2014-09-14T23:17:11Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > Really? Man, I AM stupid. You got me there. No sarcasm intended… > > . You’re ugly, too. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/196 "2014-09-14T23:20:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As you acknowledged how off base you were I only have to comment that no, I actually do check sources before coming to discussions like this one, and as Ray himself admitted that he did punch his then fiancée, I have to say that the evidence presented here shows who is the one that is really confused and with a lack of understanding. Well, no. I wasn’t “off base”. I explained that, based on the evidence that had been presented so far, we didn’t know that Rice had made a fist. You presented some more evidence, and I immediately acknowledged it. That neither indicates confusion nor lack of understanding, only a missing piece of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Killing\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/76d3ee/32.png) [@Killing\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Killing_Time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/197 "2014-09-14T23:21:35Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > You’re ugly, too. No, that’s a mirror. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/198 "2014-09-14T23:23:41Z")
[http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24705710/report-ray-rice-told-roger-goodell-that-he-hit-fiancee](http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24705710/report-ray-rice-told-roger-goodell-that-he-hit-fiancee) He clearly admits hitting her. That isn’t in dispute. I’ve seen people in this thread claim to see two hits and spitting. I don’t see two hits, but I suppose with the video being snapshots, not continuous that is possible, but I don’t see it. I don’t see spitting either, but some people here claim to see that. It is certainly possible, but it isn’t on the video that I’m looking at. Also, some people claim that there is a clearer video. I suppose that is possible, but it seems unlikely, being it is probably a digital file. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/199 "2014-09-14T23:24:35Z")
> [@Killing\_Time](#): > > No, that’s a mirror. Tell **Killing Time** what he’s won please… Yes Bob, **Killing time** has won a year’s supply of window cleaner and a shiny new helmet. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445/200 "2014-09-14T23:25:39Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You have a much better video feed than I do. Either that or your mind is filling in the blanks per your pre-conceptions. > > If you do have the clearer video, and the interviews with the witnesses, who were not in the elevator, I’d like to see them. The first spitting incident was **outside** the elevator, the ESPN reported that was also seen by the security people. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Let me ask a hypothetical with similar facts. Two people of indeterminate sex are standing close in an elevator. One or both get angry. We don’t know why, but they do. One of them steps back and across the elevator. The other pursues and throws a punch. Is that okay? Under what circumstances is it okay? Next part, the person who has the punch thrown at them throws a punch back. Is that okay? Why or why not? It does not work that way, we brought evidence of people seeing the punch on better quality video, and Ray confessing to the deed. There was no report of a punch from her. So your extraordinary item of her throwing a punch stills needs to be sourced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-second-stone-is-a-piece-of-shit/698445.md?page=11)