# The Senate Blocked Renewal Of Patriot Act
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 16, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972 "2005-12-16T21:05:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/1 "2005-12-16T21:05:34Z")
[Check This Out - The Senate blocked the renewal of the _Patriot Act_](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051216/pl_nm/security_patriot_dc)
Is this not a ray of hope for our country? It sure is in my opinion, although many people around me disagree. They say, “Well bubbah, I got nuthin’ to hide.”
Neither do I, but I don’t want people having the ability to follow me around and snoop through my life, or even worse.
But how long do you think this stand against the policy of the _W_ will last?
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### Author:  [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/2 "2005-12-16T21:27:34Z")
Considering that the filibuster was being led by a Democrat AND a Republican and more Republicans voted against Cloture than Dems voting for, then I think this stand against tyranny will last. I think it’s a sign that Moderate Republicans, who still hold to the old-time ideas of Republicanism rather than the neo-con executive version, are getting tired of being pushed around. I’m hopeful, anyway, that that’s the case.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/3 "2005-12-16T21:36:22Z")
> [@Homebrew](#):
>
> Considering that the filibuster was being led by a Democrat AND a Republican . . .
True. But the credit really goes to Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)! [http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=43115](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=43115)
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/4 "2005-12-16T21:39:36Z")
It built very nicely over the last week. The Senate had a version of the renewal that included a lot more protection of our rights and some limits on the FBI.
The Congress version allows for a police state.
I sincerely hope the Senators win out. This could be the second major policy issue that Bush/Cheney lose this week.
Jim
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### Author:  [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/5 "2005-12-16T21:49:05Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#):
>
> It built very nicely over the last week. The Senate had a version of the renewal that included a lot more protection of our rights and some limits on the FBI.
> The Congress version allows for a police state.
>
> I sincerely hope the Senators win out. This could be the second major policy issue that Bush/Cheney lose this week.
>
> Jim
If it does, beers at my place… 😃
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### Author:  [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/6 "2005-12-17T02:45:22Z")
God bless Russ Feingold!!! 🙂
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/7 "2005-12-17T02:54:57Z")
> [@Homebrew](#):
>
> Considering that the filibuster was being led by a Democrat AND a Republican and more Republicans voted against Cloture than Dems voting for, then I think this stand against tyranny will last. I think it’s a sign that Moderate Republicans, who still hold to the old-time ideas of Republicanism rather than the neo-con executive version, are getting tired of being pushed around. I’m hopeful, anyway, that that’s the case.
I predict that Dubya wil come down up to the hill, shake his fist, have some “closed-session meetings with Republican leaders” and it’ll pass.
I hope it won’t, but with the Senate having been nothing but a rubber stamp for several years now…I don’t expect them to change now.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/8 "2005-12-17T03:15:10Z")
Feingold in '08!
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/9 "2005-12-17T04:10:40Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#):
>
> Feingold in '08!
Ditto!!!
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/10 "2005-12-17T04:13:48Z")
I keep hoping the whole thing will go down the toilet, just like Social Security privatization (“reform”).
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### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/11 "2005-12-17T04:27:01Z")
Nice !
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/12 "2005-12-17T17:23:12Z")
From what I’ve heard, the main difference between the House and Senate is concerning the “snoop” provision-- the language that allows for your home to be searched w/o your knowledge. The House wants that time period for the snooping (ie, before you’re notified) to be 180 days, the Senate wanted only 7 days. They couldn’t reach a compomise. There will be some form of this bill passed. If not, the original bill will get an extension until the House and the Senate can reach agreement. From the OP’s link:
> [@](#):
>
> “None of us wants it to expire, and those who threaten to let it expire rather than fix it are playing a dangerous game,” said Sen. Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat.
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/13 "2005-12-17T19:39:06Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> There will be some form of this bill passed. If not, the original bill will get an extension until the House and the Senate can reach agreement. From the OP’s link:
> [@Leahy](#):
>
> “None of us wants it to expire, and those who threaten to let it expire rather than fix it are playing a dangerous game,” said Sen. Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat.
Wouldn’t it be nice of Leahy gave some facts, evidence, or data, instead of more “They’re gonna kill us all” crap? I mean, come on Leahy. At least point to the successes (if ya can find any).
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/14 "2005-12-17T20:35:39Z")
> [@SteveG1](#):
>
> Wouldn’t it be nice of Leahy gave some facts, evidence, or data, instead of more “They’re gonna kill us all” crap? I mean, come on Leahy. At least point to the successes (if ya can find any).
There are some important provisions of The Patriot Act that should be renewed. Throwing the baby out with the bath water isn’t the solution. It’s not good policy, and I don’t think it’s good politics for the Democrats, either. [The “seak and peak” provison isn’t popular, but many of the provisions are:](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-30-patriot-act_x.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> Some provisions of the Patriot Act are supported by a solid majority, while others got far less support.
>
> The provision that permitted federal agents:
>
> •To use information collected in foreign intelligence investigations for domestic crime investigations was supported by 81%.
>
> •To monitor names and addresses of Internet communications in criminal investigations was supported by 69%.
>
> •To tap any telephone line a terrorist suspect might use rather than specifying particular phone lines was supported by 62%.
>
> •To require libraries to turn over records in terrorism investigations unbeknownst to the patrons was supported by 53%.
>
> •To require banks to turn over records to the government without judicial approval was supported by 43%.
>
> •To conduct secret searches of Americans’ homes without informing the occupants for an unspecified period of time was supported by 23%.
Disaproval ratings for both parties in Congress are already pretty high, and I expect this will only make them higher.
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/15 "2005-12-17T22:09:38Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> There are some important provisions of The Patriot Act that should be renewed. **Throwing the baby out with the bath water isn’t the solution. It’s not good policy** , and I don’t think it’s good politics for the Democrats, either. [The “seak and peak” provison isn’t popular, but many of the provisions are:](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-30-patriot-act_x.htm)
That much, I can agree with. I didn’t check your links, but you sound reasonable, in saying we should take it apart piece by piece, and reassemble it with the proper protections and oversight, leaving out the “bad” parts. As it stand now, we need more oversight and less secrecy. We need more adherence to probable cause and the obtaining of warrants. On the other hand maybe a fresh start would be good too. The Patriot Act was signed too quickly and without a full enough review. There was too much “we gotta do something now”. I was always against it from the start (you know that), but there are some things I could live with (talking concensus wise). I just don’t accept it as it is now.
The irony of it, in hind sight is, much of what Bush wanted, was already law.
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/16 "2005-12-18T04:20:56Z")
The Patriot Act is a red flag for Civil Liberties defenders because of how sweeping the provisions were, and because of the heavy-handed way that it was rammed down Congress’ throat. It should be thrown out bodily. Then, if necessary, we can figure out which provisions are actually useful and put those in a new bill. And actually let that new bill be debated in Congress this time. And use a less Orwellian name, for crying out loud.
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-blocked-renewal-of-patriot-act/335972/17 "2005-12-18T16:17:21Z")
Now that I’ve slept on it, I’m for getting rid of the entire Patriot Act. We did fine without it,and frankly, I just don’t trust our government enough to let it stay in effect. ANy “crime fighting” tools they need were already in place before the Patriot Act. In thinking about it, I don’t want the government’s brand of “protection”. I just don’t trust them. Warrantless eavesdropping, sneak and peek searches with no requirement to notify anyone, credit checks, library surveillance, “secret” courts and “secret” judge, etc. It can all go away. Go back to the old and proven way, as defined by the Fourth amendment. No searches of any kind unless a warrant and sworn testimony before a judge, the return of the right of a person to be secure in their person, property, papers, effects etc. It worked for how many wars? It worked for how many years during the peace? It was good then, it is good now. Plus, politically, it would be an excellent message to the president that he is ONLY a president, not some unlimited superboss.