# The Senate torture report **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773 "2014-12-09T17:20:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/241 "2014-12-10T17:36:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And Congress committee reports are always straightforward and truthful, and never withhold or misrepresent information, of course. I’m sure you’ll pleasantly concede that I never suggested otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/242 "2014-12-10T17:37:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t hang my opposition on the “fact” that torture doesn’t produce results. I am against it on moral principles in all cases. I simply point out that other people are FOR torture in some cases because “it might work.” based on nothing more than Jack Bauer reruns and what they read in a magazine one time. And the opinion of six CIA chiefs who say that it worked. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/243 "2014-12-10T17:37:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And Congress committee reports are always straightforward and truthful, and never withhold or misrepresent information, of course. So far I haven’t seen any factual refutation of the (somewhat redacted) CIA documents in the committee’s report. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/244 "2014-12-10T17:38:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So far I haven’t seen any factual refutation of the (somewhat redacted) CIA documents in the committee’s report. I posted the link to it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/245 "2014-12-10T17:39:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Everyone already knew we tortured. We’ve known for many years. And then the President said we did. Now the Senate committee has, with some more details. It’s laughable that this would “cause” any attacks. If anything “causes” attacks related to this, it would be the fact that we tortured people, not documenting and discussing it years after it was revealed. > > What on earth is this supposed to mean? It could be just as easily turned around to those who support torture, and/or those who want it swept under the rug. Than you can look forward to laughing yourself to sleep. Let me low how that works out for you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/246 "2014-12-10T17:39:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Bullshit. This is not about whether torture works or not. It is not about whether we should do it or not. t is not even about what constitutes torture or not. It has already been established that the practices at issue have been stopped. Period. This is simply a bitch angry at the CIA grandstanding. At the very least, this fans the flames of a a fire we already put out. We “put out” the fire? Are you serious? > [@](#): > > But hey, let’s keep reminding our enemies who want to kill us of all the bad things we’ve done and mistakes we’ve made. Here’s an idea for people like you and her: why not propose a National Holiday: Abu Graib Day, where every year a butch of deluded nitwits can march through the streets holding up pictures from Abu Graib? Do you seriously think anyone forgot that the US committed torture? Are there terrorists who had stopped hating America, and yesterday had a light-bulb go off… “oh yeah, that’s why I hate America! honey, where’s that bomb-vest?” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/247 "2014-12-10T17:41:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Than you can look forward to laughing yourself to sleep. Let me low how that works out for you. Sorry for disagreeing. Guess we can’t disagree amicably on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/248 "2014-12-10T17:44:04Z")
I happened to catch the tail end of an interview on NPR this morning with a guy who was a long-term CIA lawyer. He stated that Leon Panetta - Democrat and Obama’s CIA director, who took office after the torture program was shut down - wrote in his book that the program yielded valuable and even “vital” (or perhaps he said “critical”) information, despite his (LP’s) being opposed to it anyway on moral grounds. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/249 "2014-12-10T17:44:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I posted the link to it. All they say is “it worked sometimes”. I’ll concede that this contradicts one of the committee summary’s statements, but they totally ignore the pages and pages of actual CIA document text – they don’t even offer any text that actually supports their claim that it works. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/250 "2014-12-10T17:45:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you seriously think anyone forgot that the US committed torture? Are there terrorists who had stopped hating America, and yesterday had a light-bulb go off… “oh yeah, that’s why I hate America! honey, where’s that bomb-vest?” Then, pray tell, what the fuck is the point of releasing it? If you want the answer, refer to my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/251 "2014-12-10T17:46:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And the opinion of six CIA chiefs who say that it worked. Well, since we’ve got this torture report full of evidence showing that it doesn’t work, it’s only fair that we look at the evidence from these six CIA chiefs showing that it does. Where is it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/252 "2014-12-10T17:47:37Z")
Its classified. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/253 "2014-12-10T17:47:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Then, pray tell, what the fuck is the point of releasing it? If you want the answer, refer to my posts. To find out and reveal the truth about the torture program. That’s a valuable thing. If we did something very bad, we should investigate it and reveal the findings. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/254 "2014-12-10T17:49:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Oh, for Christ sakes. If anyone has endangered Americans, it’s the **torturers**. Do you think there aren’t already stories about the US torturing people going around the Middle East? Do you think nobody knew about this stuff until this report came out? > > Imagine an aggro Saudi teenager spoiling for a fight. Which of these things is going to make him hate the US more: > -Stories about secret CIA prisons where guys like him get tortured, and the US is covering it up; or > -An official report by the US Senate about torture, blasting torturers and demanding better? > > If you think it’s the latter, well, that’s pretty special. How about “no fucking stories”? Although I know we can count on liberal shitheads to keep writing them to remind the world how bad America is. And how about our Senators doing what their supposed to do: protecting American lives and interests instead of endangering them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/255 "2014-12-10T17:49:22Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Tased people don’t _choose_ to comply. They can’t resist because they’re lying on the ground twitching. The pain aspect is secondary at most. Are you under the impression that people are tased continuously for minutes at a time? Do you think that any of the effects of tasing, besides pain, are present when after the taser has ceased being used? No, sorry; the pain is what makes people comply. And they do comply. Would you like me to present evidence of people complying after being tased, despite the fact that they are no longer incapacitated? Why do you think someone would comply if they are no longer incapacitated? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/256 "2014-12-10T17:50:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > why not propose a National Holiday: Abu Graib Day, where every year a butch of deluded nitwits can march through the streets holding up pictures from Abu Graib? > > Whataya say? You can draft a letter to your congressman with the idea and post it here so others of your ilk can policy it. The pictures are out there already. They know we did evil things. Making a holiday wouldn’t change things, although it might balance out our pseudo-holiday of 9/11, The Day Of Perpetual Self-Pity And Recreational Grief. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/257 "2014-12-10T17:52:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I happened to catch the tail end of an interview on NPR this morning with a guy who was a long-term CIA lawyer. He stated that Leon Panetta - Democrat and Obama’s CIA director, who took office after the torture program was shut down - wrote in his book that the program yielded valuable and even “vital” (or perhaps he said “critical”) information, despite his (LP’s) being opposed to it anyway on moral grounds. link: [Ex-CIA Lawyer Says No One Was Misled On Torture, Abuses Were Reported - capradio.org](http://www.capradio.org/news/npr/story?storyid=369777040) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/258 "2014-12-10T17:54:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > To find out and reveal the truth about the torture program. That’s a valuable thing. If we did something very bad, we should investigate it and reveal the findings. So fucking what? Investigating is one thing. Getting a better understanding of what was done, how and why is good, as you can move that info to move forward in a smarter better way. Neither of those things has anything to do with making releasing the report. It serves no fucking purpose except 1) inflaming those who already hate us and 2) giving the Berkeley crowd something to jerk off to. Oh, and 3) keeping away form the public this pictures of Feinstein and those mastiffs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/259 "2014-12-10T17:55:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about “no fucking stories”? Too late! It never happens, anyway… word always gets out eventually. > [@](#): > > Although I know we can count on liberal shitheads to keep writing them to remind the world how bad America is. And how about our Senators doing what their supposed to do: protecting American lives and interests instead of endangering them. I agree (except for the “liberal shitheads” part) – Republican Senators should strive to be more like Feinstein and work to protect American lives and interests instead of endangering them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/260 "2014-12-10T17:56:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So fucking what? Investigating is one thing. Getting a better understanding of what was done, how and why is good, as you can move that info to move forward in a smarter better way. > > Neither of those things has anything to do with making releasing the report. No, they do. I now have a “better understanding of what was done, how and why” then I did before the report was released. And the more I read of it, the better my understanding gets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773.md?page=14)