# The Senate torture report **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773 "2014-12-09T17:20:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/521 "2014-12-11T17:55:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The reason it is not being prosecuted is because it was legal at the time. And just because the laws don’t need to be changed doesn’t mean it was not legal. It just means the interpretation changed. “The administration thinks it’s legal” doesn’t mean it was legal. Do you have any cite beyond that that torture was legal? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/522 "2014-12-11T17:59:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > An 11 year old? Seriously? Yes, seriously. Of course, it is unlikely that an 11-year-old confirmed enemy combatant would have critical information. > [@](#): > > Remember this post, Dopers… **Terr** admits that he would support torturing an 11 year old girl, as long as she was classified as an “enemy combatant”. No, not if she was “classified” it. If she **was** an enemy combatant with critical information, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/523 "2014-12-11T18:00:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “The administration thinks it’s legal” doesn’t mean it was legal. Do you have any cite beyond that that torture was legal? How is an official legal opinion of a highly placed government attorney not a “cite”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/524 "2014-12-11T18:07:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How is an official legal opinion of a highly placed government attorney not a “cite”? It’s a cite (were it actually cited), but it’s just a cite about the opinion of the administration. That doesn’t tell us whether it’s legal or not, it just tells us whether or not the administration considers it legal. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/525 "2014-12-11T18:08:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The reason it is not being prosecuted is because it was legal at the time. And just because the laws don’t need to be changed doesn’t mean it was not legal. It just means the interpretation changed. So you’re perfectly fine with a country doing whatever it wants to extract information from prisoners, as long as that country deems it legal? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/526 "2014-12-11T18:08:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, seriously. Of course, it is unlikely that an 11-year-old confirmed enemy combatant would have critical information. > No, not if she was “classified” it. If she **was** an enemy combatant with critical information, yes. Why does her combatant status matter? If her dad told her to grab a gun and fight, that makes her worthy of torture? Are there any tactics you would disallow (like, say, sexual assault and rape) against a 11 year old enemy combatant with critical information, or does anything go? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/527 "2014-12-11T18:09:40Z")
I’m learning a lot about some Dopers here. Stuff that really surprises me. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/528 "2014-12-11T18:09:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Only if she was a confirmed enemy combatant. That’ll be nice, anal feeding 11-year old girls. Perhaps you and Uncle Dick can swap stories after? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/529 "2014-12-11T18:11:16Z")
**magellan01** , do you agree with **Terr** that it’s okay to torture an 11-year-old enemy combatant girl with critical info? If so, are sexual assault and rape allowed forms of torture? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/530 "2014-12-11T18:13:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, seriously. Of course, it is unlikely that an 11-year-old confirmed enemy combatant would have critical information. > No, not if she was “classified” it. If she **was** an enemy combatant with critical information, yes. But lets make sure, why don’t we? _hurl_ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/531 "2014-12-11T18:16:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because out of thousands and thousands of captured enemies, only around 100 were in that interrogation program and only 30 were subject to the “enhanced interrogations”. If CIA just wanted to torture people for the hell of it, they wouldn’t be this discriminating. Care to attempt to square this with the [UN Convention Against Torture?](http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html) > [@](#): > > Article 2 > 1.Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction. > 2.No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture. > 3.An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/532 "2014-12-11T18:17:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because of Constitutional rights that apply to US citizens. From a moral perspective that’s a distinction without a difference, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/533 "2014-12-11T18:20:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s a cite (were it actually cited), but it’s just a cite about the opinion of the administration. That doesn’t tell us whether it’s legal or not, it just tells us whether or not the administration considers it legal. Cool. Obama considers his executive power grab on immigration legal. Is it legal? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/534 "2014-12-11T18:22:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So you’re perfectly fine with a country doing whatever it wants to extract information from prisoners, as long as that country deems it legal? No, there are limits. I would limit it at real torture. Not loud music, sleep deprivation and awkward standing positions torture. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/535 "2014-12-11T18:22:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cool. Obama considers his executive power grab on immigration legal. Is it legal? I think so, but we’ll probably soon find out for sure. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/536 "2014-12-11T18:23:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, there are limits. I would limit it at real torture. Not loud music, sleep deprivation and awkward standing positions torture. But what about that 11 year old girl? I thought you were fine with her being tortured – did you not mean “real torture”? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/537 "2014-12-11T18:25:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why does her combatant status matter? If her dad told her to grab a gun and fight, that makes her worthy of torture? If her dad told her to grab a gun and fight, that’s not an enemy combatant. If she has been trained and participated in military operations against our forces, or conducted terrorist acts against us, yes, she is. > [@](#): > > Are there any tactics you would disallow (like, say, sexual assault and rape) against a 11 year old enemy combatant with critical information, or does anything go? I draw the line at actual torture. Again, I don’t consider loud music, sleep deprivation etc. torture. Sexual assault/rape is unacceptable. Serious question, **iiandyiiii** - why do you think the interrogators used loud music, sleep deprivation etc., instead of just pulling nails with pliers? Do you have an explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/538 "2014-12-11T18:26:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But what about that 11 year old girl? I thought you were fine with her being tortured – did you not mean “real torture”? No, I meant “torture” in the context being discussed. Loud music, sleep deprivation, forced standing, other physical and psychological pressure methods that do not reach the “real torture” levels. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/539 "2014-12-11T18:28:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think so, but we’ll probably soon find out for sure. How? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773/540 "2014-12-11T18:30:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Serious question, **iiandyiiii** - why do you think the interrogators used loud music, sleep deprivation etc., instead of just pulling nails with pliers? Do you have an explanation? Because I think they wanted tactics that could be argued were not torture. I don’t think those arguments hold water, when the sleep deprivation (for example) lasts for a week or more, but I think they wanted to be able to pretend they weren’t actually torturing them. But not with the butt-stuff. No idea why they chose that one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-senate-torture-report/706773.md?page=28)