# The Shadow (1994) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 4, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128 "2013-06-04T17:35:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/21 "2013-06-05T01:59:30Z")
I thought the pinball game was pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/22 "2013-06-05T03:48:19Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > . . . Plus, y’know…the Shadow nose. I cannot believe – I all but literally cannot believe – that I walked in to that one! Ten points, high five, and a deep formal bow. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/23 "2013-06-05T04:25:32Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > I also liked _The Phantom_ with Billy Zane. > > I love the 1930’s! I’m not a fan of either, but I can see someone that likes one liking the other - they seem to shoot for the same feel. They were both surfing the wave of Tim Burton’s Batman films (also not a fan) and everyone in Hollywood thought set design was more important than story. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/24 "2013-06-05T16:00:37Z")
Both _The Shadow_ and _The Phantom_ are semi-fun movies. When I was a kid I really liked both and thought they were pretty enjoyable. That said, I tried to watch them later as an adult and well… They’re not very good. I mean, they’re not terrible or anything. But the movies have overcomplicated plots, jump all over the place, and generally don’t make terribly effective use of what they have. The female leads are bland, and the heroes are just _odd_, being both rather distinctive and yet dull. But the villains and secondary cast do very wel in both movies (including fantastic scene-chewing). For what it’s worth, I can certainly watch both movies, so it’s not as if I’m offended or hate them. It’s just that the genuinely good bits are too few and too thinly spread out for me to really want to see it. When I remember _The Shadow_, I don’t really care about Baldwin’s flat hero. I recall the domineering villain, the elaborate art design, and the neat setting. It’s like a Batman movie set in the Roaring Twenties - just without Batman. ---
**Author:** ![Mavis\_Topholese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7feea3/32.png) [@Mavis\_Topholese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavis_Topholese)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/25 "2013-06-05T16:11:57Z")
I saw the movie, and it did a good job assembling the trappings of a Shadow film, but at some point some executive decided that the Shadow wasn’t allowed to kill anybody, and that’s an important part of the Shadow, blasting hordes of gangsters with his flame-spitting .45 automatics. That’s what he does, deliver lead vengeance unto sub-human criminals. All the hypnosis, disguises, Margo Lane, Burbank stuff is merely there to get the story to the part where the Shadow, whirling, pulls the triggers of his fire-belching automatics and laughs as doom rains down upon the hapless gangsters and thugs - and the movie had none of that. On the other hand, Jonathan Winters. So I should be more charitable, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/26 "2013-06-05T16:22:06Z")
The Shadow and The Phantom predate Batman, you understand, and Bob Kane stole from them, as well as Doc Savage. From the Shadow we get Batman’s understanding of the need to scare villains and to prowl the darkness (and the Joker has the Shadow’s laugh), and the millionaire playboy secret identity; from the Phantom he took the Phantom Cave and the Phantom Car, and the masked outfit; from Doc Savage he took the idea of a millionaire in perfect physical shape with a vast knowledge of science and criminology. Of course, Superman turned Doc’s “Man of Bronze” into the “Man of Steel” and outright swiped his Fortress of Solitude. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/27 "2013-06-05T16:32:20Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The work I’m referencing is titled Gangland’s Doom, and it’s by Gibson. I think that book just references another of his alias. He was definitely outed as Kent Allard in “The Shadow Unmasks” in August of 1937. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/28 "2013-06-05T16:37:49Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’m not sure if this is where he got his name, but MST3K did a few marathon’s of the Gamera movies and called them “Candid Gamera”. Independent discovery of a fun pun. I actually didn’t get into MST3K until late in Mike’s reign and didn’t have access to a channel it was airing on until 1996. A few years ago, I did hear that they’d done a marathon using the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/29 "2013-06-05T16:45:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that book just references another of his alias. He was definitely outed as Kent Allard in “The Shadow Unmasks” in August of 1937. Yes, but a later pulp (I’ll have to check and find out which one) tells of Kent Allard’s body having been found next to a plane crash in the Orient, indicating that the Allard identity was just another front. Gibson loved to keep the reader’s guessing, and wasn’t above changing continuity for the sake of storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/30 "2013-06-05T16:47:22Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > When I remember _The Shadow_, I don’t really care about Baldwin’s flat hero. I recall the domineering villain, the elaborate art design, and the neat setting. It’s like a Batman movie set in the Roaring Twenties - just without Batman. This nails it for me. I also recall seeing it in a sparse theatre, and was amused by a couple of little old ladies two rows in front of me who nodded knowlingly and nudged each other at certain scenes/lines like “the weed of crime bears bitter fruit”. In short, they were the '40s equivalent of modern fanboys. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/31 "2013-06-05T16:48:11Z")
> [@Mavis\_Topholese](#): > > All the hypnosis, disguises, Margo Lane, Burbank stuff is merely there to get the story to the part where the Shadow, whirling, pulls the triggers of his fire-belching automatics and laughs as doom rains down upon the hapless gangsters and thugs - and the movie had none of that. He does open up on the warriors in Reinhardt’s lab, which is really the only place he had a horde to shoot at. You can see some of their bodies lying around when Margo arrives a little later. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/32 "2013-06-05T17:14:17Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The Shadow and The Phantom predate Batman, you understand, and Bob Kane stole from them, as well as Doc Savage. Yeah, but that just means he was the first, not the best. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/33 "2013-06-05T19:19:10Z")
It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I liked the film. It had problems. But I liked it. RE John Lone I had to check to be sure, but he was also in M Butterfly. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/34 "2013-06-05T19:57:50Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > This nails it for me. I also recall seeing it in a sparse theatre, and was amused by a couple of little old ladies two rows in front of me who nodded knowlingly and nudged each other at certain scenes/lines like “the weed of crime bears bitter fruit”. In short, they were the '40s equivalent of modern fanboys. any chance that you have their phone numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/35 "2013-06-05T21:03:54Z")
Somebody’s coming. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/36 "2013-06-05T21:12:17Z")
I’ve always thought the movie would be much better if they’d cut the opening sequence in the opium fields of Tibet, and just started off with the scene on the bridge, supplying any necessary backstory by flashback later. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/37 "2013-06-06T02:20:00Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > and the millionaire playboy secret identity; from the Phantom he took the Phantom Cave and the Phantom Car, and the masked outfit Ah, but didn’t Zorro predate the Phantom in having a secret-HQ cave _under his stately manor,_ and in having a masked outfit _complete with black cape,_ the better to inspire Batman, right down to the ‘rich playboy fop’ identity? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/38 "2013-06-06T04:03:23Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The Shadow and The Phantom predate Batman, you understand, and Bob Kane stole from them, as well as Doc Savage. From the Shadow we get Batman’s understanding of the need to scare villains and to prowl the darkness (and the Joker has the Shadow’s laugh), and the millionaire playboy secret identity; from the Phantom he took the Phantom Cave and the Phantom Car, I remember the white horse, but I don’t remember the Phantom car. Where did he drive it in the middle of the jungle? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/39 "2013-06-06T12:23:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Ah, but didn’t Zorro predate the Phantom in having a secret-HQ cave _under his stately manor,_ and in having a masked outfit _complete with black cape,_ the better to inspire Batman, right down to the ‘rich playboy fop’ identity? Yes, and you could also make a case for Robin Hood before all of them. The difference with the Phantom, though, was that he often came to the USA and fought criminals, rather than the Alcalde. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128/40 "2013-06-06T12:24:19Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I remember the white horse, but I don’t remember the Phantom car. Where did he drive it in the middle of the jungle? The Phantom made occasional visits to America (as dictated by the plot of this week’s comic strip), and he used the Phantom car on those occasions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shadow-1994/660128.md?page=3)