# The shape of a football **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 24, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479 "2012-08-24T11:02:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/1 "2012-08-24T11:02:21Z")
Link to Cecil’s column: [Why is a football called a pigskin](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/829/why-is-a-football-called-a-pigskin) On the origin of the shape of the football Cecil says: > [@](#): > > The real question here, if you don’t mind my saying so, is how footballs got to be prolate spheroids (“round but pointy,” for you rustics) rather than perfectly spherical. As usual with these pivotal episodes in history, it was an accident. Henry Duffield, who witnessed the second Princeton-Rutgers game in 1869, tells why: > > ``` > "The ball was not an oval but was supposed to be completely round. It never was, though — it was too hard to blow up right. The game was stopped several times that day while the teams called for a little key from the sidelines. They used it to unlock the small nozzle which was tucked into the ball, and then took turns blowing it up. The last man generally got tired and they put it back in play somewhat lopsided." > > ``` Bot didn’t American football simply adopt the shape of the rugby football? Or did they really both become egg-shaped independently? ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Saxon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f17d59/32.png) [@Frank\_Saxon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_Saxon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/2 "2012-08-26T23:13:08Z")
As a kid, growing up in the Netherlands in the 70s, we played with two types of soccerballs. The first was the cheap non-regulation ball that most kids owned, usually made from some kind of plastic. The real ball, probably for economic reasons only owned by the happy few, was an inflatable innerball covered with leather patches, usually faded to the max by playing on the streets rather than on a field. The last one was refered to as a “bladder”. Yes, the English word, that at that time had no other meaning to me than forementioned soccer ball. I wasn’t a big fan of playing with bladders, cause they would seriously hurt when you would position your head in front of a forcefully played shot. I checked the dictionary for any mention of the word bladder (in the context of a ball), but it came up blank. I have no clue if the term was used nation wide. My world was a lot smaller back then. Nowadays it is no longer a luxury to own a regulation style ball, so I assume they are simply referred to as balls. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/3 "2012-08-27T02:37:05Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Bot didn’t American football simply adopt the shape of the rugby football? Or did they really both become egg-shaped independently? I wondered that too. A bit of googling showed that both codes arrived at roughly the same shape within about a year of each other (1869/1870, IIRC). I wouldn’t mind betting that this was due to a technological advance in rubber, say vulcanisation. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/4 "2012-08-27T19:04:57Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Link to Cecil’s column: > > [Why is a football called a pigskin](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/829/why-is-a-football-called-a-pigskin) > > On the origin of the shape of the football Cecil says: > > Bot didn’t American football simply adopt the shape of the rugby football? Or did they really both become egg-shaped independently? As far as I can tell, Cecil here _is_ referring to the rugby football. American (that is, gridiron) football did not develop until about 10 years later; since it developed from the rugby code, it’s not surprising it used the same type of ball. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/5 "2012-08-29T14:03:11Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I wondered that too. A bit of googling showed that both codes arrived at roughly the same shape within about a year of each other (1869/1870, IIRC). I wouldn’t mind betting that this was due to a technological advance in rubber, say vulcanisation. True, but codes usually lag behind practice. The [Rugby Football History web-page](http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/ball.htm) suggests that the rugby ball got its pointy shape by the 1830’s, citing a passage from _Tom Brown’s Schooldays_: > [@](#): > > **Shape and Size** > > In fact it is the shape of the pigs bladder which is reputed to have given the rugby ball it’s distinctive oval shape although balls of those days were more plum shape than oval. The balls also varied in size in the beginning depending upon how large the pig’s bladder was. > > In those early days it was necessary to ask for volunteers to inflate the ball for it was not a job that was sought after. The pigs bladder would be blown up while still in its very smelly ‘green state’ solely by lung power down the snapped stem of a clay pipe which was inserted into the opening of the bladder. > > **There is no record as to when the ball became less round and more oval in shape but there is a reference in Tom Brown’s school days by Thomas Hughes, an old boy from Rugby school, i.e. “the new ball you may see lie there, quite by itself, in the middle, pointing towards the school goal” which indicates that the ball had become more oval by 1835 when the game was supposed to have taken place.** The web-page also has this little nugget about the occupational hazards of blowing up pig’s bladders: > [@](#): > > Richard Lindon’s wife (who used to blow up the bladder based rugby balls for her husband) contracted a lung disease thought to have come from years of blowing up pig’s bladders (some of which were most probably diseased) and died. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/6 "2012-08-29T14:33:37Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > As far as I can tell, Cecil here _is_ referring to the rugby football. American (that is, gridiron) football did not develop until about 10 years later; since it developed from the rugby code, it’s not surprising it used the same type of ball. > Powers &8^] No, Cecil is definitely referring to the American football, as this extract from the column makes clear. > [@](#): > > The real question here, if you don’t mind my saying so, is how footballs got to be prolate spheroids (“round but pointy,” for you rustics) rather than perfectly spherical. As usual with these pivotal episodes in history, it was an accident. Henry Duffield, who witnessed the second Princeton-Rutgers game in 1869, tells why: > > ``` > "The ball was not an oval but was supposed to be completely round. It never was, though — it was too hard to blow up right. The game was stopped several times that day while the teams called for a little key from the sidelines. They used it to unlock the small nozzle which was tucked into the ball, and then took turns blowing it up. The last man generally got tired and they put it back in play somewhat lopsided." > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/7 "2012-08-29T18:09:40Z")
Isn’t “bladder” still the technical term for, so to speak, the “inner tube” of balls that have such, even though it’s made of rubber now? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/8 "2012-08-29T18:37:28Z")
Yes, the word “bladder” is used generically for any membranous bag that is inflated. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/9 "2012-08-29T20:57:28Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > No, Cecil is definitely referring to the American football, as this extract from the column makes clear. It doesn’t make it clear at all. The two 1969 Princeton-Rutgers games were closer to rugby and even to soccer, than to gridiron. They used a rugby ball. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/10 "2012-08-30T00:15:54Z")
Rugby was invented after a guy called William Webb Ellis picked up the ball during a game of soccer and carried it to the opponents end of the field. I always assumed the shape of the ball was a reference to the shape of Webb Ellis’ head after the other players caught up with him. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/11 "2012-08-30T01:54:00Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Rugby was invented after a guy called William Webb Ellis picked up the ball during a game of soccer and carried it to the opponents end of the field. No it wasn’t, [that’s a total myth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Webb_Ellis) like Abner Doubleday inventing baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/12 "2012-08-30T03:02:21Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > It doesn’t make it clear at all. The two 1969 Princeton-Rutgers games were closer to rugby and even to soccer, than to gridiron. [cough]_ **18** _69[/cough] ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/13 "2012-08-30T03:10:22Z")
> [@Frank\_Saxon](#): > > The real ball, probably for economic reasons only owned by the happy few, was an inflatable innerball covered with leather patches, usually faded to the max by playing on the streets rather than on a field. > The last one was refered to as a “bladder”. Growing up in England in the 1980s, my friends and I used to refer to such “proper” balls as “casers” or “caseys”, presumably because of the leather outer case. I was Googling “caser” without success and worried I might have been making that up, but [here’s a nostalgic football forum thread](http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Potters&action=display&thread=125688) on “caseys”. Perhaps “caser” was just a local regional variant. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/14 "2012-08-31T15:52:22Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > [cough]_ **18** _69[/cough] Yeah, yeah, you know what I meant. The odd thing is, I thought I went back and fixed that before posting. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/15 "2012-08-31T19:34:46Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > It doesn’t make it clear at all. The two 1969 Princeton-Rutgers games were closer to rugby and even to soccer, than to gridiron. They used a rugby ball. > Powers &8^] Maybe I’m reading it wrong. It read to me as if the ball had taken on its pointy shape at Princeton. If they were already using the ovoid rugby ball then the anecdote seems a little, if you’ll pardon the term, pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-shape-of-a-football/632479/16 "2012-09-06T23:30:09Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Maybe I’m reading it wrong. It read to me as if the ball had taken on its pointy shape at Princeton. If they were already using the ovoid rugby ball then the anecdote seems a little, if you’ll pardon the term, pointless. No, they weren’t already using an ovoid rugby ball; rugby football (nascent as it was) used standard round balls like association football. I have no doubt the Princeton-Rutgers game in question was the origin of the prolate spheroid; what I am saying is that since gridiron football (football with discrete downs, to use the most basic distinguishing factor) was not developed until 10 years later, then gridiron inherited the prolate spheroid from the rugby ball that traces its origins to 1869. You originally asked: > [@](#): > > Bot didn’t American football simply adopt the shape of the rugby football? Or did they really both become egg-shaped independently? You are correct that American football adopted the shape of the rugby football; they did not develop independently. But the passage you quote from Cecil does not contradict that; Cecil simply failed to mention that the 1869 match was a _rugby_ game, not a gridiron game. (Modern scholars consider it the second intercollegiate football game in the U.S., but it was clearly not in any way shape or form gridiron football.) Powers &8^]