# The Sheepshank Redemption **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 29, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430 "2006-03-29T18:24:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/21 "2006-03-29T22:05:31Z")
So there’s one possibly legitimate use. But that certainly ain’t significant enough to put it in a “top ten” knot list, is it? Unless yer a pirate. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/22 "2006-03-30T04:03:39Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > So there’s one possibly legitimate use. But that certainly ain’t significant enough to put it in a “top ten” knot list, is it? Unless yer a pirate. You must have missed **UncleRojelio** ’s use, it was the one I was going to post. A climbing friend told me about it, it was famous among the old (late fifties, early sixties) Colorado climbers. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/23 "2006-03-30T14:16:21Z")
Oops. Yeah, I should have included the other Unc’s use in my enumeration. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/24 "2006-03-30T21:56:52Z")
OK, I just listed for myself 10 knots which are more useful than a sheepshank, so I’ll agree that it doesn’t belong in a “top ten most useful” list. It probably does, however, belong in a list of the “top ten easiest” knots. If you’re curious, here’s the list I came up with: Overhand Square Bowline Sheet Bend Clove Hitch Taut-line Hitch Timber Hitch Slip Knot Bow Knot Lariat Loop I can think of several others, intended for specialized uses, that are probably still more common than sheepshanks (for instance, there’s a special kind of knot (whose name I don’t recall) for joining two strips of nylon mesh, that works better for that purpose than most rope knots). Heck, I find that I even use the much-maligned granny knot more often than a sheepshank: It’s good for tying closed a plastic grocery bag which you intend to untie later. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/25 "2006-03-30T22:35:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > … > I can think of several others, intended for specialized uses, that are probably still more common than sheepshanks (for instance, there’s a special kind of knot (whose name I don’t recall) for joining two strips of nylon mesh, that works better for that purpose than most rope knots). > … You are probably thinking of what I learned as the “water knot”, also called a “ring bend” or a “tape knot” (a better term, since “water knot” is sometimes used for other knots): [http://www.student.virginia.edu/~brmrg/knots/water.html](http://www.student.virginia.edu/~brmrg/knots/water.html) Your list looks rather “boy scout handbook”, which is probably a decent compromise. A climber or sailor’s list is probably going to be different. I might lobby for inclusion of the fisherman’s knot (grapevine). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/26 "2006-03-30T22:58:42Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Here’s something which suggests the sheepshank is useful for hangings at sea From the link: > [@](#): > > The noose is always adjusted with the knot slightly below and immediately in back of the left [ear]. This is to provide the sidewise jerk, which is one of the refinements of a successful hanging. > > Hangings at sea were infrequent. Such an occasion furnished a bit of extra-routine labor, in which the boatswain took especial pride, and in which no bungling was tolerated. A boatswain’s reputation would be forever ruined if there were any hitch on such an occasion. So nice to see a skilled artisan taking pride in his work! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/27 "2006-03-31T00:26:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Your list looks rather “boy scout handbook”, which is probably a decent compromise. A climber or sailor’s list is probably going to be different. I might lobby for inclusion of the fisherman’s knot (grapevine). Unsurprising, since I learned my knots in Boy Scouts. And I didn’t intend for my list to be **the** Top 10 list, just a list of 10 knots I could think of off the top of my head all of which were more useful than the Sheepshank. If the Fisherman’s Knot belongs on the list, too, that just strengthens my point that the Sheepshank does not. Incidentally, your link for the “Water Knot” matches my recollections. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/30 "2013-07-27T13:10:11Z")
The trucker’s hitch (which is a modified sheepshank) shown on that website is not the one I was taught and used for many years. The first point of the knot is that there should be no need to pass an end through the loop. The second is that it should come undone reasonably easily (try it when the rope is wet and frozen). Thirdly it should bind enough so that you can pull and relax to get it tight. Other considerations are that you can do a second knot on the slack rope to double the tension, it must not damage the rope, and of course, it MUST be reliable. When roping and sheeting a 40’ trailer it may be necessary to use upwards of two dozen of these knots on three or four lengths of rope. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/31 "2013-07-27T14:33:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The app provides step-by-step animations and instructions, as well at least a few paragraphs about why the knot is useful and in what situations. You might have mentioned what those reasons were, for those of us without the app. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, the \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* app warns against using the Sheepshank knot under any circumstances, and suggests the Bellringer’s knot to shorten rope and the Alpine Butterfly knot to more securely work around damaged rope. Exactly what I’ve always felt\* about the sheepshank – it looked like a knot just waiting for a chance to undo when the tension let go, and cause havoc. > [@](#): > > The trucker’s hitch (which is a modified sheepshank) shown on that website is not the one I was taught and used for many years. The first point of the knot is that there should be no need to pass an end through the loop. The second is that it should come undone reasonably easily (try it when the rope is wet and frozen). Thirdly it should bind enough so that you can pull and relax to get it tight. > > Other considerations are that you can do a second knot on the slack rope to double the tension, it must not damage the rope, and of course, it MUST be reliable. > > When roping and sheeting a 40’ trailer it may be necessary to use upwards of two dozen of these knots on three or four lengths of rope. A I agree entirely with your first paragraph, which is good knot sense. Too often the reasons for using a knot aren’t made clear by the books giving them or the people teaching them, and the ability to be easily untied (and to not cause undue fraying of the rope) are two crucial important bits about a knot. And thanks for relaying information about who would need to shorten a rope using such knots. “two dozen knots”? Yowza. As I said long ago, in most cases where a sheepshank might be indicated, I’d feel infinitely safer undoing my end knot and retying the rope, rather than relying on a knot that might – would, the way most people tie it – let go if tension was slackened. \*Well, without the specifics of the Bellringer’s Knot and the Alpine Butterfly, of which I never heard before now. But an unsecured sheepshank (without something inserted into the end loops) always looked to me like an accident waiting to happen ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/32 "2013-07-27T14:41:03Z")
When I was a (fat) Scout, I learned how to tie a sheepshank and why to tie it. It’s used to shorten a rope, as mentioned. But it doesn’t seize up after it’s been loaded. Tie a double overhand, sling a ton of lumber off it, and you’ll have to cut the rope to get it apart. Using a sheepshank lets you quickly release the rope with no trouble, once it’s slack. Same principle applies to rock climbers tying in- a figure 8 is fine, but if you plan on falling, use a bowline. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/33 "2013-07-27T14:41:13Z")
Reported post by **boywhocriedshark** as spam. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/34 "2013-07-27T16:17:38Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > So, **olpeculiar** , as you are expert in knots, I must ask the question: > > When _do_ you use the Sheepshank? > > When _is_ the tension strong and steady enough to guarantee that it won’t come undone? Why wouldn’t the rope be the correct length beforehand? Have you yourself ever used it? > I gotta know. Even back in Boy Scouts, when I was instructing the Tenderfoots (Tenderfeet?) how to tie their knots, I’d say that I had no idea when you’d use this knot. Several internet sites list it among the “10 most useful knots” for some reason. But the only time I’ve ever tied one was to amuse myself and remind myself that I knew how to do it. You’ve obviously never spent any time around a flock of sheep that needed to be shanked. Boy scouts are an unsatisfying substitute. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/35 "2013-07-27T16:27:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Reported post by **boywhocriedshark** as spam. Maybe so but that website is actually useful spam. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/36 "2013-07-27T16:38:23Z")
zombie or no true or knot, it still is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/37 "2013-07-27T21:42:33Z")
Note: A spam post (quoted by CalMeacham) and several other posts quoting it have been removed. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/38 "2013-07-27T23:16:04Z")
2006 isn’t _that_ long ago, is it? Of the five links in this thread, not one is valid any more. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430/39 "2013-07-27T23:36:50Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > 2006 isn’t _that_ long ago, is it? Of the five links in this thread, not one is valid any more. Seven years is an eon in internet time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sheepshank-redemption/350430.md?page=1)