# The Signifying Douchebag? \[Henry Gates arrest - racism?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703 "2009-07-21T01:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/61 "2009-07-21T15:41:50Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > No, no. Dio is right. We should ignore primary sources and just listen to the armchair quarterbacks. Gates is a primary source. You’re ignoring him. What I’m saying is that we have no reason to automatically assume that the police report is more accurate than Gates’ account. The cops said it therefore it must be true is a very ovine approach to analyzing something like this. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/62 "2009-07-21T15:42:32Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Responding to a call is not a blank check to do whatever you want. Well, then. I retract the statement where I said otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/63 "2009-07-21T15:43:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Gates is a primary source. You’re ignoring him. > > What I’m saying is that we have no reason to automatically assume that the police report is more accurate than Gates’ account. The cops said it therefore it must be true is a very ovine approach to analyzing something like this. Gates hasn’t given a public statement I am aware of, and his lawyer doesn’t dispute the major points of the police report and has confirmed several of them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/64 "2009-07-21T15:43:47Z")
Never mind. I was whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/65 "2009-07-21T15:43:56Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > It’s not about “respectin autoriti” it’s about cooperating with public servants to make the thankless job that we pay them to do as effective as possible. Then why was he arrested? Why did the cop, _in the process of leaving the scene_ turn around and arrest him? How is that not [Cartman]respectin’ authoriti[/Boss Hogg]? We shouldn’t have the right to non-violently protest against the government? From you front porch? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/66 "2009-07-21T15:44:27Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > It’s not about “respectin autoriti” it’s about cooperating with public servants to make the thankless job that we pay them to do as effective as possible. > > Cops seem to be stuck in a damned-if-we-do damned-if-we-don’t mode where people expect them to “Respond now! Respond now! Save me! Get the bad guys! Protect my stuff!” but heaven forbid they need some cooperation from you or you become the party in question. > Then it becomes “Why are you questioning ME! I don’t have to tell you nuthin! I’m innocent because I just told you so! Stop harassing ME!” > > Honestly, if I was breaking into my own home and the cops showed up and threw me to the ground and questioned me up and down to make sure I really was the homeowner I would give them no hassle and actually be thankful that they went through all that trouble to protect my home. > This guy sounded like a thankless piece of shit. I agree he sounds like a thankless piece of shit who just assumes that the cops are profiling. But, it appears the police did not really have any reason to arrest him. I guess technically you can be disturbing the peace on your property (think loud stereo at 2 a.m.) but this sounds more like a POP (pissing off the police) charge. I think a citation would have been sufficient since this is a civil matter. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/67 "2009-07-21T15:45:05Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Responding to a call is not a blank check to do whatever you want. > > And no seizure? The man was arrested. Seizure refers to taking property as evidence. And it’s a moot point anyway since Gates was arrested for doing something he was doing when they arrested him. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/68 "2009-07-21T15:46:52Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > And it’s a moot point anyway since Gates was arrested for doing something he was doing when they arrested him. And that something is? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/69 "2009-07-21T15:46:59Z")
Being black? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/70 "2009-07-21T15:48:05Z")
RTFA. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/71 "2009-07-21T15:48:26Z")
A lot of cops seem to think disorderly conduct is some kind of catch-all offense such that they can arrest anyone who looks at them funny. While the contours change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, I know of nowhere that allows a charge of disorderly conduct for ranting at the police who are on your own property. So, all else aside, the officer was most likely in the wrong for arresting Gates even if his part of the story is the true one. The police report seems to have been taken down though. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/72 "2009-07-21T15:49:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Being black? Why does it have to be race? Can’t the cops just be equal opportunity assholes? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/73 "2009-07-21T15:50:48Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Seizure refers to taking property as evidence. > > And it’s a moot point anyway since Gates was arrested for doing something he was doing when they arrested him. Fourth Amendment: > [@](#): > > The right \*\*of the people \*\*to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized You were lecturing me about the law, I recall… And if you honestly believe a man yelling at the cops from his own porch is legitimate grounds for arrest, then you must be willing to put up with a lot of crap from authority in your life. Unless they’re rich and uppity, in which case you’ll rail against them from your computer. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/74 "2009-07-21T15:58:31Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Honestly, if I was breaking into my own home and the cops showed up and threw me to the ground and questioned me up and down to make sure I really was the homeowner I would give them no hassle and actually be thankful that they went through all that trouble to protect my home. I’m sure you mean well, but I don’t believe this for a second. Do you thank police for pulling you over when you speed? Did you thank airline employees for asking you if you really packed your own bags, and do you thank them today for searching you? Do you thank the guys at the liquor store or your favorite restaurant for asking for your ID when you order wine even if it’s been decades since that was necessary? It’s a nice idea to believe we’re all supposed to appreciate these well-intended inconveniences, but they’re almost always a pain in the ass. So I submit that if you were a disabled university professor and pushing 60, and were just getting home from a trip overseas only to find you couldn’t open your front door, and then found the cops at the door suspecting you of buglary, you might be a grouch and overreact. It wouldn’t be a proud moment for you, but shit happens and most of us aren’t saints. You don’t have to be a giant asshole to go overboard in the circumstances Gates was apparently facing. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/75 "2009-07-21T16:06:09Z")
deleted … thought to ask a mod’s permission directly ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/76 "2009-07-21T16:15:40Z")
But do you have to be an asshole – or at least a knee-jerk armchair quarterback – to call the police racist and demand they be reprimanded and/or fired? Can intelligent, thoughtful non-racist people see a little right and a little wrong to both sides, instead of immediately broadcasting their unspeakable outrage that meddling peasants dared to question a local VIP? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/77 "2009-07-21T16:18:28Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > But do you have to be an asshole – or at least a knee-jerk armchair quarterback – to call the police racist and demand they be reprimanded and/or fired? Can intelligent, thoughtful non-racist people see a little right and a little wrong to both sides,\*\* instead of immediately broadcasting their unspeakable outrage that meddling peasants dared to question a local VIP\*\*? Bolding mine. This seems to be the key issue with you in this, but nobody here sees it that way. All we see is a man being harrassed in his own home and arrested for getting angry about it. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/78 "2009-07-21T16:21:21Z")
The newspaper and blog articles I’ve read, and the comments, emphasize Gates’ _eminence_. I would say that here people are more equal oppportunity haters of the police, but I still find the position knee-jerk. Not to mention inane and poorly argued. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/79 "2009-07-21T16:27:09Z")
If people believe that racism played a role in this, for them to ask “Didn’t they know who he was?” has little to do with elitism, and more to do with wondering why the police would suspect a distinguished academic of being a common burglar. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/80 "2009-07-21T16:39:30Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The newspaper and blog articles I’ve read, and the comments, emphasize Gates’ _eminence_. I would say that here people are more equal oppportunity haters of the police, but I still find the position knee-jerk. Not to mention inane and poorly argued. I don’t give a crap about his eminence. I don’t hate the police. I will accept the police report as a true and complete representation of the events that took place. I will accept that the there was not a hint of racism in the policeman’s motivations or actions. I will **not** accept a policeman who arrests a man for exercising his First Amendment rights on his front porch. I will **not** accept a policeman who, after recognizing that he is the sole recipient of someone’s diatribe, lacks the judgment to end the scene by _continuing_ to vacate the premises, but instead returns to make an arrest. I will **not** accept a law that requires an unreasonable degree of civility or decorum when dealing with public officials, be they politicians or policemen. The line for unreasonable is equal to all other First Amendment considerations (e.g., no threats, etc. are out). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703.md?page=5)