# The Signifying Douchebag? \[Henry Gates arrest - racism?\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703 "2009-07-21T01:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/161 "2009-07-22T07:13:13Z")
Go read posts 142 and 154 and retype post 160. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/162 "2009-07-22T07:39:16Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I don’t see anything arrogant about getting back from a long trip, being in the privacy of your own home, and having to deal with unwelcome questioning, and getting pissed off about it. I get pissed off all the time. I don’t take it out on people doing their job. In this instance Gates had no class (pun intended). > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I can assure you, Gates could easily get this guy drummed out of the force if he wanted to. I can assure you he can’t. He’s got nothing to stand on. You may worship at his feet but he’s just an old man running his mouth to the rest of world. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/163 "2009-07-22T10:21:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Bringing someone in for public disturbance doesn’t mean they have to prosecute. It means they brought in a hot-head who needed to cool off. Cite, please, that an officer’s legitimate role involves “bringing in” “hot-heads” who “need to cool off.” -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/164 "2009-07-22T10:45:37Z")
Well, one thing that has been resolved is that many of you would be really ineffective as cops. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/165 "2009-07-22T11:01:32Z")
Seeing as how this cop wasted resources and time arresting an innocent man, I don’t think he can be held up as an example of an effective police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/166 "2009-07-22T11:08:55Z")
Well, there’s a difference between effective and efficient. Or at least that’s what I leaned in Microeconomics 201. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/167 "2009-07-22T11:37:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He was seen forcing his front door open. A call went in and it was investigated. What difference does it make if he was already in? Wouldn’t it be logical that a burglar, after forcing a door open, be INSIDE? What would **not** be logical is that after discovering another route inside of the house via a back door (which is ostensibly hidden from public view) a burglar would then return to the front door _via_ the inside of the house and continue to work on it, one man inside, one man outside, to try to get it open. Burglars don’t need multiple points of entry and exit. Being that it was broad daylight and that the police report clearly states that there is sufficient glass in and around the front door to see inside the entry way, you’d think miss “oh no black men” might have seen _that_ aspect of things and thought for a second before she grabbed the phone. More and more, I’m less irritated with the cop (though by no means do I think he used 1/10th of the intellect God gave the common flea) and more irritated with Miss Cecilia, who watches her neighborhood in the middle of the day enough to see this alleged burglary attempt (which would’ve been the dumbest burglary attempt ever, front porch, middle of the day, no attempt to disguise that they were trying to force the door) but not enough to have ever noticed the rather distinct gentleman who lives in the house, at least not enough to notice that he was one of the men on the porch. (Because there is an abundance of short, limping, cane-using, older black men on her street in Cambridge, no doubt.) > [@cricetus](#): > > Well, one thing that has been resolved is that many of you would be really ineffective as cops. Because we would recognize when _our_ behavior was crossing the line from officer of the peace to intentional provocateur and try to reel ourselves back in? Because when someone is clearly agitated, our effort would be to calm them down, not keep goading until we have “grounds” to arrest? Because we’d try ascertaining important facts at the scene before we jumped straight into laying accusations on people? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/168 "2009-07-22T12:02:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Bringing someone in for public disturbance doesn’t mean they have to prosecute. It means they brought in a hot-head who needed to cool off. What a coincidence that they made that decision after the arrest drew national attention. (By the way, you know what really cools off a hothead? Leaving him the fuck alone.) > [@](#): > > I don’t honestly see how Gates could be unaware that his actions were suspicious. He should have been, yes, but he wasn’t. Whether he responded to some extra attitude from the officer or just pulled rank and snapped at the guy for no good reason, I don’t know. From his point of view this was not suspicious. > [@cricetus](#): > > Well, one thing that has been resolved is that many of you would be really ineffective as cops. Darn, another dream dies. Unfortunately the _actual_ cop here didn’t do so great either, since he started with a situation where no crime had occurred, and wound up arresting a guy on his own front porch and became the subject of this controversy. That’s not exactly the outcome you want. [Here’s a Washington Post follow-up story that includes a picture of Gates and several police after he was arrested.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771.html?nav=hcmodule) Also includes Gates saying he’s glad somebody called the police but resented the way the cop treated him. I also think the police report comment about Gates’ action “serv[ing] no legitimate purposes” supports the idea that Crowley arrested Gates in part because he was embarrassing him in front of the public. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/169 "2009-07-22T12:13:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > By the way, you know what really cools off a hothead? Leaving him the fuck alone. This from a moderator? I think you know better than that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/170 "2009-07-22T13:34:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s logial that burglars lie and bluff their way out of it. > > Ever watch Cops on TV? I just caught it tonight where they pulled some guy over and ask him if he was smokin. **“Oh no officer, I would never do drugs”**. What’s this in your pocket, do you have any more pot in the car? **“Oh no officer, that’s all I have”**. What’s in this bag, is THIS all you have? **“Yes officer”** … and so on. > > It’s logical that the officers asked for hard identification from someone who forced entry into a house. It would be negligence if they didn’t. I would expect it in the same situation. First, he did give the police two forms of ID. That should have been the end of the story. Second, lying about using, or having drugs on you when you are pulled over is perfectly logical. Answering the doorbell when cops arrive at the house you just broke into makes absolutely no sense. Even the stupidest criminals would either not answer the door, or run away. Any cop should know this. That’s what leads me to believe the officer didn’t really think he was going to encounter a burglar when he approached the house. Not to mention that the average burglar is in a house for some ridiculously short amount of time, generally doesn’t bother leaving locks intact, and isn’t a tiny, 58-year old who walks with a cane. Plus, didn’t the cop call the HU police to confirm Gates’ identity? If you are presented with evidence (a driver’s license) that he lives there, why do you need to call anyone to check up on him? Did he really think this possible burglar would carry around a fake driver’s license (with the address of the house he just burgled), and a fake HU ID, pretending to be a professor there? Really? For what it’s worth, [here](http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0) is Mr. Gates’ account of what happened. THe article states the following: > [@](#): > > HLG: The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured. > > It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.” > > It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front. > > A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’ So according to him, he can’t really raise his voice (not that it matters). He also states that he was only arrested once he stepped out of his house. Maybe the lawyers or cops in this thread can tell us whether that makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/171 "2009-07-22T14:04:59Z")
Gates’ own account is way different, now that we’ve heard it. I don’t find it hard to believe that it’s exactly how things went down, though his lawyer earlier seemed to confirm (in a lawyerly way) that Gates was agitated and yelling. His bronchial infection supports the cop’s claim that he couldn’t hear Gates ask for his name and badge number. The police admit that the arrest was a mistake, and I imagine they’ll handle things internally for whether or not the cop is corrected. So I don’t expect there will ever be a way to resolve which version is the truth. Pick your source: white guy or important guy? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/172 "2009-07-22T14:19:45Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Maybe the lawyers or cops in this thread can tell us whether that makes a difference. Inside house = need a warrant. On porch = don’t need a warrant. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/173 "2009-07-22T14:22:00Z")
Wow, if he tricked the old guy just to get him outside and arrest him, he should be fired. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/174 "2009-07-22T15:39:18Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > What would **not** be logical is that after discovering another route inside of the house via a back door (which is ostensibly hidden from public view) a burglar would then return to the front door _via_ the inside of the house and continue to work on it, one man inside, one man outside, to try to get it open. What was reported was 2 people trying to break in. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/175 "2009-07-22T16:03:57Z")
Only a really bad policemen would make decisions based on what they suppose a burglar might do in a given circumstance. What homeowner would be soothed to find the police had been there moments after the burglars entered and were satisfied that _someone came to the door_, leaving them to continue carting off the contents of the house? This is just armchair quarterbacking, and incredibly lame armchair quarterbacking if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/176 "2009-07-22T16:26:48Z")
Why did it take six cops to check a disabled old man’s ID? ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/177 "2009-07-22T16:32:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why did it take six cops to check a disabled old man’s ID? Not a lot to do in Mayberry on a weekday afternoon? Also known as rubbernecking. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/178 "2009-07-22T16:32:40Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > First, he did give the police two forms of ID. That should have been the end of the story. It should have been for someone with any brains. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Second, lying about using, or having drugs on you when you are pulled over is perfectly logical. Answering the doorbell when cops arrive at the house you just broke into makes absolutely no sense. Yes, criminals never try to bluff their way out of a situation. > [@brickbacon](#): > > For what it’s worth, [here](http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0) is Mr. Gates’ account of what happened. THe article states the following: > > So according to him, he can’t really raise his voice (not that it matters). He also states that he was only arrested once he stepped out of his house. Maybe the lawyers or cops in this thread can tell us whether that makes a difference. Yes, because you can’t be an obnoxious dill hole with bronchitis. A Harvard professor should understand that treating people rudely will not return respect. He owes the officers an apology. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/179 "2009-07-22T16:37:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A Harvard professor should understand that treating people rudely will not return respect. A **cop** should know that even better - they’re supposed to be the professionals. And, yet, time and again we’ve seen situations (many recorded) where an officer goes into a situation all cowboyed up, escalating benign situations beyond stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703/180 "2009-07-22T16:39:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why did it take six cops to check a disabled old man’s ID? That’s funny. Really. You live in a nice neigborhood and the cops quickly respond to a burglary call. The horror. Most folks would appreciate that and welcome the officers. “Hi, thanks for arriving so quickly, come on in while I get my license”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-signifying-douchebag-henry-gates-arrest-racism/503703.md?page=10)