Right, but being called a racist is not a matter of ‘stinging’, it’s a matter of professional survival, no different than being called a ‘pimp’ or a ‘drug-dealer’ or any other charge that requires a cop to defend his reputation, because the possibility exists that he ‘might’ be such a thing. So in that regard, I don’t think being called a racist, especially seeing how many people think that blacks toss out the racism card every time something goes wrong, would have much punch anyway.
However in this case, I submit that if Prof. Gates, had called the Officer a motherfucker, the results would have been the same…you are disrepecting me and so here’s the cuffs; which I think you will agree with.
Being a dick is not illegal-- thank god, right? The cop was also being a dick, and he was not arrested. Having read this account, I think the cop was a bigger dick for luring Gates outside, knowing full well that, if Gates continued to yell, that he would arrest him once he stepped out the door. So, “being a dick” is really irrelevant here, since both parties could be seen as guilty of it, the cop moreso in fact.
I agree with almost all of this, except for the “lacking punch” part. Seems to me it carries plenty of punch, as a result of historical factors and ongoing social issues: after all, I doubt the President of the United States would be commenting on the case if the arresting cop was Black himself and the Prof called him a “motherfucker”.
It is much easier to disprove a charge that you are a pimp or drug dealer than that you are a racist, and people are much more inclined to believe the latter without further evidence than the former.
Consider people’s reactions if the Prof had called the Cop a drug dealer or pimp. They would wonder how the Prof knows this about the Cop. In contrast, if the Prof was calling the Cop a “racist”, people would assume that the Prof was commenting on what the Cop was saying or doing right in front of him.
Right or wrong — provoked or not — the very essence of Gates’ speech is a protest against the malignant use of state power. The officer used State Power to silence criticism.
Society’s right to an almost unfettered ability to voice such grievances trumps many individuals’ rights — such as the right not to be offended or not to be called a racist. This is a lot different than one of those douche-on-douche contests (e.g., naked wizard, skateboarder, pissed grandma) that pops up here all the time.
The sacrosanct right to rail against the government keeps tyranny at bay much more than a thousand Argent Towers.
If one is a public official and is concerned about having to disprove a false claim of racism, turning around and arresting someone in what can be construed as a malicious retributory act doesn’t seem a very good way to disprove that accusation. At all.
Of course that gets down to why one feels one needs to disprove the accusation. Like Sotomayor, surely your record and actions would speak for itself, yes? Cops get called racists every day… cops of all ethnicities get called racists every day, for god’s sake.
That arrest report seems a good illustration of a cop acting like an automaton and not a human being.
I have to believe that, if the cop were so deeply concerned about being seen as a racist, as opposed to just pissed off at being yelled at, he would have behaved differently. He totally played into Gates’ hands by overreacting and overstepping as he did. I agree that being accused of racism is a very serious accusation, and hurtful as well if it’s not true. However, I don’t think it gives you the right to throw your weight around and punish the person for saying it with the force of your legal authority.
Sure, but context is everything. If the Prof. was pulled over and there was a Key of coke in his car and he said the Cop was a drug-dealer who planted it, people would react.
You are correct, history is important and we have to remember that when people accuse the police of racism, the burden of proof is on them; not the police. As Obama noted last night, he was on a committee that dealt with profiling; because when people complained about it, they were not believed. The burden of proof was on them and who was going to believe a person tossing out the race card to get out of a speeding ticket or because the Officer was just using statistics?
The reason why this is a big issue, isn’t so much because of the power of being called a racist, it’s because of the power a Havard Professor has; including the power of knowing the President of the USA on a first name basis.
If this had been Mr. Gates instead of Prof. Gates, i suspect his claims of racism would have been called ungrateful ‘whining’, the Officer would have felt no sting at all.
I regret posting this the way I did, especially when there was another thread going I didn’t find. I allowed an initial report to color my POV too much, and moreover, posting very few threads at all, I’m not particuarly happy to have this one on my resume.
Did you read the police report? I don’t get that the cop was being a dick AT ALL. It seems that the cop was completely in the right. I’m curious to see what we hear from the other cops and the Harvard security people that showed up before Gates was arrested.
I’m not contending that the cop acted smartly in arresting the Prof - the opposite in fact.
Nor am I contending that the cop was “deeply concerned about being seen as a racist”.
Personally, I tend to think the cop was just pissed off at being hassled when doing something that is, from his perspective, ultimately for the homeowner’s own good - and reacted (inappropriately, mind) by arresting the fellow.
The Prof was in the wrong up to the point that he got arrested, and the cop was in the wrong for arresting him. Ultimately, the latter is the important part, as “being an asshole” isn’t a crime.
That being said, the issue is why the cop would be pissed at being called a racist - the point being that the charge has sting, whether or not the cop was personally concerned with “disproving” it. Indeed, it would be all the more annoying where the cop was convinced his actions were totally non-racist.
I’m sure waitresses and shop-keepers and indeed anyone dealing with the public on a regular basis have to deal with people being dicks to them all the time. We hold cops to a higher standard because of the high potential for abuse of their powers, but it is surely understandable that they, too, get annoyed – though once again, I’d agree it gives them no right to act out on that annoyance.
I did say, and you quoted it, “Having read this account,” so what do you think? Are you shocked that I could read the same text that you did and arrive at a different conclusion? You shouldn’t be, considering, and that’s exactly what happened. I read it, from the cop’s own perspective, and I thought the cop was a bigger dick than Gates. Why? Because the cop lured Gates outside in order to made a wrongful arrest, when all Gates did was pop off.
That’s not what I get from the report. The cop explains why he asked him to go outside. You’re assuming he’s outright lying. I see no reason to think that. Do you really think that this cop, while he was in the house, decided that he wanted to arrest a guy at his own home. Particularly a well-to-do black Harvard professor (which he knew at this point) who is screaming racist nonsense and telling him he hasn’t heard the last of the incident?
That doesn’t seem at all likely to me. But we will no doubt learn about the cops record and also see the degree to which his story about the actual arrest is corroborated by the cops and Harvard security.
As far as your “having read this account”, I was sure you were referring to the police report specifically. My bad.
How, exactly, did the cop “lure” him outside? I see nothing in either account that suggests that, after the cop had IDed Gates and stepped outside, Gates couldn’t have said “fuck you,” closed the door, and ended the whole thing.
There was NO REASON to continue the encounter after he ascertained that Gates was the homeowner. Gates was obviously quite angry. The cop’s job was to walk away at that point. The fact that he did not, but continued to engage Gates, resulting in a wrongful arrest, makes him a dick IMO.
Really? What do you think I think he’s lying about? It’s not a matter of lying. I believe he asked Gates to go outside, and it’s within the realm of imagination that he knew full well what would transpire, as he got his cuffs out very shortly after Gates left the house. Even if he somehow had no idea what would ensue, see above: he should have disengaged from the situation and left. Period.
Isn’t that precisely what he did? Couldn’t he very easily have avoided it by… I’ll say it again… just walking away? It was not inevitable or ineluctable. The cop contributed in large part to the outcome, which was wrongful arrest. I don’t see how you can defend it. Call Gates an asshole, a dick, whatever-- the cop overstepped his authority, and that makes him the bigger asshole/dick in this situation.
By refusing to give his name (he says he did give his name, Gates says he didn’t; the officer’s account does say that Gates asked to see his badge, but not that the officer complied) and badge number, and saying that the “acoustics in the kitchen” made it hard for him to hear his continued transmissions to ECC. If Gates wanted that information, he would have to go outside, wouldn’t he?
Yes, Gates could have shut the door and ended it. The cop could have walked away and ended it. In the end, though, it was the cop’s JOB to behave with a certain amount of restraint and decorum. He didn’t. Why was it necessary to do anything other than say, “I’m sorry for disturbing you, have a nice day” and leave after he saw Gates’ ID? I really don’t understand.
He was in the process of ascertaining that. He called the Harvard police to come to the scene. Maybe if Gates had given him his driver’s license, that would have cleaner proof. I don’t know.
Evidently not. Evidently he had to “radio my findings to ECC”; that he couldn’t do so in inside due to the acoustics with Gates yelling. So he was going outside no matter what to use his radio. The officer tells Gates that if he has anything else to say he has to do it outside because THAT is where HE is going. You seem to think this is all a lie.
Are you kidding me? You really think that the arrest was premeditated? No way. There’s no way a cop would want the hassle that was sure to ensue. You see this kind of shit on the TV show Cops all the time. Cops show up, try to diffuse a situation, one shithead can’t control his emotions and…voila he finds himself in the back of a cop car.
Gates was being disorderly. A crowd had gathered. He told him to calm down. He wouldn’t. He showed him the cuffs. Calm down or else. Gates, just like the idiots on Cops, opted for the handcuffs. As I said, I’m eager to see the degree this is corroborated by others at the scene. But as it is now, fuck Gates. He’s the racist.
Even if we buy Gates’ account that the cop wouldn’t give his name (and I am highly dubious), that still doesn’t qualify as “luring” IMO. Close the door and it’s all over. If you want to prove some kind of point, call the PD and ask for the cop’s ID – he was dispatched, after all.
If Gates wanted to engage in some kind of confrontation with the cop, IMO he is obligated to do so in a courteous and respectful manner.
IMO it’s everyone’s obligation as a citizen to behave with “a certain amount of restraint and decorum” at some times and places; dealing with the police is one of them. I also don’t understand why Gates couldn’t just give his ID and let the cop go (Actually, I do kind of I understand – he’s a rich important guy accustomed to getting his ass kissed).
Cops need to have thicker skin than this cop showed in this incident. But I don’t buy the idea that anyone can say anything they want to a cop just for the hell of it, anymore than free speech rights entitle me to go up to random passerby and berate them with insults. The cop is there acting as a representative of the government, and by extension the community. They don’t merit asskissing, but neither should they be expected to take showers of abuse without blinking. They’re citizens, too.
I’m not sure Gates deserved to be booked, but it’s hard for me to muster much sympathy for him either.
A good way to end the abuse would have been to leave, no? I’m also not willing to believe that the cop in no way contributed to Gates’ feeling of being transgressed in this situation. Like I said, it takes two to tango.
He shouldn’t have been booked, and that’s the bottom line. Being an asshole, raising your voice, and calling someone a racist, while definitely not polite, are not illegal. The cop was wrong. Feel free to think poorly of Gates if you want, because that’s ultimately irrelevant IMO.
ISTM the cop is leaving when he walks outside the house.
“I’m not willing to believe” is an interesting way to put it. I don’t doubt that Gates felt a bit transgressed just by having a cop come to his door and ask for ID; I would. But that doesn’t exempt him from the obligation to act civilly.
But that’s just the point – at some times and places, they ARE. If you and I are having a conversation in the park, and I get upset and start screaming insults at you, to the point that passerby are disturbed and alarmed, it is entirely possible that law enforcement will get involved, and even that I could be prosecuted for it.
“Disturbing the peace” and “disorderly conduct” are against the law. They are obviously laws with a lot of room for interpretation … but they are laws nonetheless.