# The Silence of the Mods: manhattan and the Loyalty Day thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386 "2004-05-04T01:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/1 "2004-05-04T01:04:03Z")
I seem to be having more than the usual amount of trouble with my reading comprehension lately. But that still doesn’t exactly justify **manhattan** ’s posts in my [Loyalty Day thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=254029) in GD, especially [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4816873&postcount=25), but also to a lesser extent [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4816873&postcount=14) and [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4816873&postcount=43). I’m not gonna bother pitting manny, though; I’m not interested in giving him the time of day, let alone a Pit thread. Rather, if there is any point to which I would wish to draw your attention, it would be to the curious incident of the mods in the Loyalty Day thread. I know, the mods did nothing in the Loyalty Day thread, and that was the curious incident. And one would think a post such as this would rate some sort of moderator response, seeing as how accusations of trolling are against the rules in all fora, personal attacks are against the rules in GD, and junior modding is at least frowned upon by the board admin - and saying someone deserves to be banned is as excessive a display of junior modding as there can be: > [@](#): > > Bullshit. You are lying. You are lying to try to get a rise out of people; in this case to induce conservative persons to say something bad about the President. – It even worked with **Sam Stone**. > > This entire thread was a troll. And this particular troll involved you attributing to one president what is properly attributed to Congress (specifically, to Congress in 1958). There’s a citation right at the bottom of the press release, but you (correctly) figured that most people wouldn’t read that far. > \*\*December]/b] was banned for precisely that offense – you should be too. Manny was correct about most people not reading that far - I missed it too. Others missed it because they just didn’t read the press release word for word. But in the Manny-vision of the world, RTFirefly, your local super-villian, could not have had the same failing. Sees all, knows all, leads all astray, that’s me. But since the mods aren’t afflicted by whatever sort of obsessive tunnel vision seems to have gotten hold of Manny’s brain, I expected them to respond to Manny’s post as I’d expect them to respond to any other post of similar intensity and rules violations in GD: by issuing some sort of warning. It isn’t like they didn’t know about it; I’ve exchanged correspondence with two of the three GD mods about Manny’s posts in this thread, and the third showed up as well - to mildly rebuke me for having said I was reporting the just-quoted post to the mods. Since that was Sunday morning, and it’s now Monday night, it’s clear that the mods are blowing this one off. I’m perplexed and disappointed: I can’t imagine anyone else here getting away with a post like that. And for good reason: if such posts were tolerated in GD, they would quickly become the norm, and actual debate would then be out of the question. Any comment from the board administration? ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/2 "2004-05-04T01:10:29Z")
It’s a pretty simple concept: Don’t commit any board rule violations, no matter how technical or petty _and_ have a different political philosophy than the mods. And make sure they disagree with whomever you’re targetting as well. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/3 "2004-05-04T01:17:49Z")
Well, heckydarn, **RT** , it apparently wasn’t the first time you overstated the nature of what you felt to be an offense by Bush. **manhattan** called you on it. And, FWIW, I was told that calling someone a “liar” in GD is acceptable but deprecated. And **manhattan** did later allow that you might simply have been mistaken, and you admitted yourself you didn’t read all of your own cite. You messed up. And, to be perfectly honest, it was indeed this sort of thing that made **december** so hated by the Usual Suspects. It doesn’t make you a bad person or a bad poster. Although it will be a cold day in Detroit before I bet against you again. But this is what it looks like from the right-wing side of the SDMB. And how, occasionally, you look. Not as good as you deserve. It was sauce for **december** ; it’s sauce also for you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/4 "2004-05-04T01:20:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Since that was Sunday morning, and it’s now Monday night, it’s clear that the mods are blowing this one off. Give them a bit of time! They do have lives outside these boards, you know… (or so I’ve heard!) ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/5 "2004-05-04T01:20:40Z")
I’m not really sure why, but for some reason I’ve only ever seen a few of **manhattan** ’s posts in all the time I’ve been here. 100% of them have been remarkable for their rudeness, intemperance, extremism (I especially remember one in which he repeatedly referred to those who were in opposition to him politically, which would include me, as pro-terrorist), and general obnoxiousness, and all of these I read in GD. I have no idea why he’s allowed to be this way. The best thing to do with his extraordinarily worthless posts is to do what I’ve been doing up until this post: ignore them. If you’re the victim of one of his contentless tirades, report it to the mods, and continue on. Believe me, I’ve never seen a poster, with the possible exception of **Chumpsky** , more worthy of this kind of treatment. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/6 "2004-05-04T01:23:40Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > I’m not really sure why, but for some reason I’ve only ever seen a few of **manhattan** ’s posts in all the time I’ve been here. 100% of them have been remarkable for their rudeness, intemperance, extremism (I especially remember one in which he repeatedly referred to those who were in opposition to him politically, which would include me, as pro-terrorist), and general obnoxiousness, and all of these I read in GD. > I have no idea why he’s allowed to be this way. The best thing to do with his extraordinarily worthless posts is to do what I’ve been doing up until this post: ignore them. If you’re the victim of one of his contentless tirades, report it to the mods, and continue on. Believe me, I’ve never seen a poster, with the possible exception of **Chumpsky** , more worthy of this kind of treatment. You don’t even have to go that far. Under the UserCP options there’s an ignore list (down near the bottom). Just put in your least favorite names and browse free and happy. I’ve found the boards much more enjoyable since I discovered that little feature. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/7 "2004-05-04T01:27:22Z")
**Shodan** , if the mods want to call me on any misbehavior of mine, that’s fine with me. That’s what they’re there for. But I expect them to do the same with **manny** , that’s all. **pantom** , I’m not calling **manny** on _his_ behavior (and I concur with your assessment). I’m calling the mods on _theirs_. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/8 "2004-05-04T01:32:16Z")
Doesn’t really work for me. You read the next post down, have no freakin idea what that poster is referring to, and have to go back and read the “ignored” poster’s post so as to comprehend what’s going on. Tried it with the dearly departed **december** once, but very quickly turned it off again. Probably didn’t help that the guy was like diarrhea - all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/9 "2004-05-04T01:42:57Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > Doesn’t really work for me. You read the next post down, have no freakin idea what that poster is referring to, and have to go back and read the “ignored” poster’s post so as to comprehend what’s going on. Tried it with the dearly departed **december** once, but very quickly turned it off again. Probably didn’t help that the guy was like diarrhea - all over the place. Ah, you’re missing the first key to mental well-being: a succinct disinterest in opinions and people for whom you have no respect. I highly recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/10 "2004-05-04T01:45:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > FWIW, I was told that calling someone a “liar” in GD is acceptable but deprecated. You would be referring to [this post by Gaudere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4118286&postcount=3): > [@Gaudere](#): > > In GD, “that is a lie” and “you are a liar” will not get a warning if used fairly reasonably, even if it does not exactly thrill me to see it. Sometimes people _do_ lie in an argument and pussyfooting around it didn’t seem much good. Posters have called mods liars, mods have called posters liars, etc. without a warning for years, ever since the GD forum has been around. If someone says “X is a lie” (and therefore “you are a liar”), you can disprove it with facts, same as any other empirical claim. > > A person who has said a lie is a liar, while a person who makes a stupid argument is not neccessarily stupid. That is why “that argument is stupid” is not considered to be equivalent to “you are stupid”, but “you are a liar” and “that is a lie” are tolerated. > > It doesn’t mean I think it is a good way to foster courteous debate, and if someone gets really obnoixous about calling people liars (particularly on flimy or nonexistent evidence) they can be banned under the “jerk” rule, but it’s been an acceptable phrase in and of itself ever since GD was first created. Reviewing the bidding, you can call someone a liar in GD if you can make a case that they’ve lied. But if your evidence is flimsy or nonexistent, you’re outside the rules again. Since Manny’s first involvement in the thread is to call me a liar without presenting any evidence whatever (or even making it clear at the time whether he’s talking about me or **Finagle** , although he later cleared that up), ISTM it’s pretty clear where Manny’s initial post in the thread fits in this somewhat complicated set of inclusions and exclusions **Gaudere** created in her response to your question. > [@](#): > > And manhattan did later allow that you might simply have been mistaken Not exactly. He _offered_ to acknowledge that I was merely mistaken, _if_ I essentially gave him authority to act as a moderator over me in that thread, and did his bidding. (Don’t’cha think it’s kinda funny the mods let that one by? I sure do. It’s as if Manny never stopped being a mod at all, in their eyes.) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/11 "2004-05-04T01:52:25Z")
Clearly, RTF is the victim of a vast, Right-wing conspiracy. Bush clearly travelled back in time and coerced Reagan into making this holiday _just so that Republicans can trick him into kneejerking_! Pour outta the woodwork, acolytes, and defend your brethren from the chrono-tampering Republicans! ---
**Author:** ![Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mercury)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/12 "2004-05-04T01:55:12Z")
What’s the **Canby** / **Manhattan** connection? They share a computer or something? ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/13 "2004-05-04T01:59:49Z")
It was started by Eisenhower, **Spoofe** , a thing you’d know if you’d read the controversial posts involved. Relic of the cold war. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/14 "2004-05-04T02:31:00Z")
The only thing of which we cannot be certain, **RT** , is whether anything was said offline. AFAIK, accusations of trolling are forbidden. If I did it, I can rest assured I’d get an Official Warning. But not all moderators behave the same way, and perhaps they took care of it offline. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/15 "2004-05-04T02:39:18Z")
accusations of trollin are not permitted, but its been my experience rarely elicit a warning. accusation of liar liar pants on fire almost never get a warning IME (but, IMO, are especially lame comments - almost never are able to be proved, almost always amount to you are wrong or I dont agree) But **Manny** was being an ass, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/16 "2004-05-04T02:56:15Z")
> [@Mercury](#): > > What’s the **Canby** / **Manhattan** connection? They share a computer or something? Sometimes – she’s my girlfriend, and her only part in this is that she erroneously thinks I’m smart enough to log her out first thing in the mornings from her computer. And **RT** , you can cut the martyr act any time now. The fact, the incontrovertible, proven fact is that your OP was more full of shit than an Atkins dieter who didn’t get his roughage. Interestingly, while I’m allowed to call you a liar in GD, I’m, _not_ allowed to mention the _only_ other possibility – that you are just plain stupid. You [previously erroneously believed something on the White House website was unprecedented when it was not](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=210239). Got slapped around, but didn’t learn. You [misread a plain-text statement by the White House secretary](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=252140). Got slapped around, but didn’t learn. In that very same thread, you claimed “If Okrent and Bovino are in fact ombudsmen rather than editors, despite their titles, then that’s another kettle of fish” despite that Okrent is identifed as Ombudsmen in the _very text you cite in your OP_. For the record, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt there and played awful nice. And then in the current instance you didn’t read your very own cite. So you tell me, **RT** , which is it? Liar or more stupid than a puppy, who at least gets it after being hit with a rolled-up newspaper a few times? You tell me precisely, to the number, how many times you have to pull the same shit before calling you a liar is no longer based on “flimsy or nonexistent” evidence? Four? Six? Ten? Tell you what. Since this is such a stick in your craw, here’s what I’m gonna do. For the time being, instead of believing that you are lying I’m going to treat you like **Bricker** treated **Reeder** until that guy started to get the hint. Before responding to any of your OPs, I’m going to ask if you have read the information you cite, whether you have done independent investigation of the central facts of your OP and whether, based on your reading and investigation, you _really_ have a good-faith belief in your assertion. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/17 "2004-05-04T03:02:02Z")
Its like _deja vu_ all over again: the Recurring Mystery of How the Fuck Does Manny Get Away with This Shit. Seen it a bunch of times. I think one time when he was totally over the brown rainbow, some Mod came in an scolded collectively - like if Mr. T was pistol whipping the Dalai Lama, they say, “Hey! Knock it off, you two!” Think maybe he has The Ring? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/18 "2004-05-04T03:35:46Z")
**manhattan** : Accusations of trollery are _verboten_. You know this. **RTFirefly** : The facts in your OP have been brought to the attention of the proper authorities. Now get over yourself already. **manhattan** : He has conceded his error in both the GD thread and in this thread. Stop being such an asshole by continuing to accuse him of intentional falsification of facts. 'Twould be a stupid supergenius indeed who attempted to fool the Teeming Millions by citing a press release that refuted their own lies. **RTFirefly** : Curb your enthusiasm, okay? There are many millions of reasons to hate the C.I.N.C.-S.O.B. No need to be the first one to proclaim another reason without multiple verifying sources. Shit, that’s the sort of mistake Bush himself makes on a routine basis. **Both of you** : Go get laid or something. This is some weak-ass shit. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/19 "2004-05-04T04:11:16Z")
\*\* RTFirefly \*\* you thread should have been closed immediately for that lame ass piece of shit excuse for an opening post. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386/20 "2004-05-04T05:42:44Z")
> [@](#): > > **RTFirefly** > it’s clear that the mods are blowing this one off. It’s a bit early to assume this, IMHO. It would be disappointing if they do though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-of-the-mods-manhattan-and-the-loyalty-day-thread/243386.md?page=2)