# The silence on Biden is deafening **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411 "2007-02-01T14:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/21 "2007-02-01T17:09:15Z")
What, exactly, is rascist about it? I heard it on the radio yesterday and I heard a guy being complimentary. You really have to bend over backwards to interpret it as rascist. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/22 "2007-02-01T17:13:36Z")
[QUOTE=Steve MB] We’re waiting to find out who Biden plagarized the comment from, so we can assign the ultimate blame properly. [/QUOTE] You were obviously remembering Joe Biden’s famous speech 9which he lifted from neil kinnock): it had to do with Biden’s hard-working cola-mining ancestors (no coal mines in Delaware). Anybody know how much Biden has spend on hair transplants?-the results don’t look good! ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/23 "2007-02-01T17:25:16Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] Is this just a case of “as long as he’s my kind of guy I’ll give him a pass” or are the Dems really in love with Biden? [/QUOTE] I don’t think it’s so much that the liberals are willing to give him a pass on this slip of the tongue, as it is liberals not being as willing as conservatives to manufacture outrage. I didn’t even know who the heck Biden is, Republican or Democrat, and even _I_ automatically inserted “Presidential Candidate” after “African-American” in that sentence. You can take pretty much anything out of context and make the speaker look bad. This sounds a HELL of a lot like the botched Kerry joke outrage we had just a few weeks ago. Here’s a hint- if you have to convince people to be outraged about something, maybe it’s not something that outrageous. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/24 "2007-02-01T17:33:39Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] What, exactly, is rascist about it? I heard it on the radio yesterday and I heard a guy being complimentary. You really have to bend over backwards to interpret it as rascist. [/QUOTE] “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” - He’s the “first” mainstream African-American that is all these nice things? All previous mainstream black guys have been poorly spoken, thick, dirty and unattractive? - It’s a storybook tale, i.e. what an amazing and unlikely thing to occur! I don’t believe he actually meant those things. But really you don’t have to bend over backwards to interpret it as racist; in fact just taking them on face value would allow us to make that assumption. The problem here is (as far as I can tell from **carterba** ’s cite) that the quote doesn’t use a comma that should be there. So while you and others listening to the radio heard “the first mainstream African-American\*\*, \*\* who is articulate…” people who read the quote aren’t getting the right idea of it. Instead of comparing him to other African-Americans, he’s merely listing his attributes ( He’s African-American, he’s articulate, bright, etc). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/25 "2007-02-01T17:40:04Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” [/QUOTE] I’m glad Biden said this because it shows he’s ill-equipped to be president and so now we don’t need to waste anytime paying attention to him. If the first word you reach for when praising a black colleague is “articulate”, then you fail the test. Get to stepping. I can’t wait until Obama’s race stops being the center of attention and folks can actually, you know, start talking about the man’s politics. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/26 "2007-02-01T17:45:15Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] That was central to my debate - do the dopers here, by and large, care that a senior Democratic Senator running for President made a fairly blatant raciest comment? “I give the guy as pass” sums up what I thought I hear. Hope that I wouldn’t, but though I would. The closest comparison is the Trent Lott comment, which I’ll give you was much more blatant, drummed up at least a couple threads with a couple hundred comments per. But it’s as has been said here a few different ways. He may be a jerk, but he’s my jerk, so I’ll defend him. And this is a liberal site. [/QUOTE] Well, let’s see. You were completely wrong in your assumption that we weren’t discussing it, completely wrong that liberals hadn’t condemned it (in fact, this was primarily a story on liberal blogs FIRST and FOREMOST), and, in fact, as many people were, wrong about what he actually said. Is there anything else you are prepared to be wrong about today? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/27 "2007-02-01T18:00:29Z")
Well, the comment has changed my mind about Joe Biden – I think the guy has a racist bone or two in his body. But I don’t think it’s the conscious racism that characterizes most of the folks whom we think of as racism, he just has some outmoded views about black people that he probably got in his formative years and it shows in what he thinks was a safe, complimentary phrase. See, as a Democrat, he’s with the party that generally opposes racism. Republicans, well, Republicans are a different matter. Expressions of racism from Republican pols, combined with being part of a party that’s done the old covert-nod-and-wink for racist voters for decades, is a much more telling thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/28 "2007-02-01T18:00:44Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I think it will sink his candidacy [/QUOTE] That’s presuming it was ever afloat. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/29 "2007-02-01T18:03:28Z")
I spend some time on Capital Hill, and I have co-workers that spend even more time there. It’s amazing how out of touch these people get, on both sides of the isle. It seems apparent that if you have limited contact with “real people” and the peole you do interact with are kissing your ass 24/7, and no ones telling you something that you don’t want to hear, that comments like these, and the one that Trent Lott said a few years back, just don’t seem off the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/30 "2007-02-01T18:14:19Z")
I would say that this is more a window on how out of touch many people are with decency and honesty. I never much liked Biden, but this entire non-controversy is one of the most ridiculous I’ve seen in a long while. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/31 "2007-02-01T18:23:26Z")
If this is what pases as rascism, I don’t see how you could compliment Obama without it being construed as rascist. “He’s tall” See, comparing him to an NBA player! “He’s nice” What, all other black people aren’t? This going over every utterance by a Democratic candidate (even non-candidates like John Kerry) in a desperate attempt to find something offensive is lame. That “Macacca” comment by George Allen really messed with the Republicans, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/32 "2007-02-01T18:24:33Z")
I think it sounded condescending in a manner which is typical of a particular generation and time. I took the “clean” remark to be about his record and public image, not about his hygene, but it was a cringe-inducing choice of words right after “articulate.” The hell of it is, Obama _is_ damned articulate, and I don’t mean that he pronounces his words correctly and uses good grammar, but that he communicates ideas in clear, effective manner. He “articulates” ideas in a way that John Kerry, for instance, does not. He comes across. He’s lucid. He commands a podium. But the history of condescension behind the word “articulate” has made that a loaded word when applied to how a black man speaks in public. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/33 "2007-02-01T19:05:46Z")
I think **lightin** nailed it. I think most democrats see it for what it was, ill chosen if revealing commentary. I agree that there may have been more outrage if a Republican had said such a thing. So what, is outrage good thing? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/34 "2007-02-01T19:13:59Z")
Maybe the silence is because we can reasonably chalk this up to simple carelessness, because nobody really believes Biden is even a little bit racist. Dude’s got libcred to burn. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/35 "2007-02-01T19:14:53Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Maybe the silence is because we can reasonably chalk this up to simple carelessness, because nobody really believes Biden is even a little bit racist. Dude’s got libcred to burn. [/QUOTE] I really believe he’s a little bit racist. I mean, isn’t everybody, sometimes? But not everybody talks about the Indian accent you gotta have in order to go to Dunkin’ Donuts, and insists it’s not a joke. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/36 "2007-02-01T19:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Maybe the silence is because we can reasonably chalk this up to simple carelessness, because nobody really believes Biden is even a little bit racist. Dude’s got libcred to burn. [/QUOTE] I believe he’s a little bit racist. And “libcred” hardly immunizes someone against racism. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/37 "2007-02-01T19:29:19Z")
As one of them liberal Dems, it appeared to me that outrage was being expressed sufficiently. [Atrios](http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_28_atrios_archive.html#117025719445268382): “Volumes could be written about all that was wrong with what Biden said about Obama, but I believe we’ve just witnessed the shortest presidential run in history.” [Kos](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/31/11112/2465): "Really, if we live in a just world, this [Biden quote] will be the end of Joe Biden’s political career. On Barack Obama: “Articulate”. “Mainstream”. “Bright and clean”. It’s clear his career has dragged on one election cycle too many." [John Aravosis (AmericaBlog)](http://americablog.blogspot.com/2007/01/finally-clean-black-guy.html): “Yes, who isn’t tired of of all those unclean, stupid, ebonics-speaking African-Americans in politics?” Plenty more where those came from. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/38 "2007-02-01T19:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] As one of them liberal Dems, it appeared to me that outrage was being expressed sufficiently. [Atrios](http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_28_atrios_archive.html#117025719445268382): “Volumes could be written about all that was wrong with what Biden said about Obama, but I believe we’ve just witnessed the shortest presidential run in history.” [/QUOTE] I loved Atrios’ header for that post: “Buh-Biden.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/39 "2007-02-01T19:33:53Z")
This thread is my very favorite kind of outrage: premature, factually incorrect outrage not about an event, but about someone else’s reponse to an event it - and even then, it’s an event I don’t think the OP cares about in the first place - he just wants to use it to bash people he doesn’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/40 "2007-02-01T19:38:33Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] This thread is my very favorite kind of outrage: premature, factually incorrect outrage not about an event, but about someone else’s reponse to an event it - and even then, it’s an event I don’t think the OP cares about in the first place - he just wants to use it to bash people he doesn’t like. [/QUOTE] I think a lot of Dem’s are guilty of the same thing - not very many people like Biden, so they are damning him with faint praise - “He didn’t mean what people are saying he did, but it was still pretty stupid…” I don’t like Biden either, so this doesn’t bother me, but to say he is rascist is completely unfair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411.md?page=3)