# The silence on Biden is deafening **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411 "2007-02-01T14:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/121 "2007-02-04T20:59:13Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] I don’t know why you can’t understand it. Did you read that link and listen to the sound clip? The rest of us seem to be able to understand the difference, so I suggest the difficulty must be yours. [/QUOTE] With or without a pause, Biden called Obama “articulate.” That’s a clueless thing for a supposedly aware politician to call a black American. Unless your claim is that the pause was so great he was no longer even talking about Obama, the pause doesn’t actually change anything for me. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/122 "2007-02-04T21:21:31Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] With or without a pause, Biden called Obama “articulate.” That’s a clueless thing for a supposedly aware politician to call a black American. Unless your claim is that the pause was so great he was no longer even talking about Obama, the pause doesn’t actually change anything for me. [/QUOTE] You don’t see any difference between calling someone, “the first articulate African-American”, and calling someone “The first African-American [candidate]” and _going on_ to say that this person is articulate? With the first interpretation, the implication is that there aren’t any _other_ black people who are articulate. The second interpretation does not make this implication. If you don’t get the difference, I just don’t know what to say. If you take issue with his statement for _other_ reasons, that’s a different matter. Let’s first clear up the incorrect assertion that he meant there aren’t any other articulate black people, or that it’s unusual for black people to be articulate. It seems obvious that wasn’t his meaning. If _that_ is cleared up, we can address your assertion that it’s not PC to call a black person “articulate”. Seems like an odd position - why do you feel this way? Do you think black people can’t be articulate? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/123 "2007-02-04T21:25:01Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] If _that_ is cleared up, we can address your assertion that it’s not PC to call a black person “articulate”. Seems like an odd position - why do you feel this way? Do you think black people can’t be articulate? [/QUOTE] It’s not an odd position at all. It’s well-known that the term has uncomfortable connotations. [Just read this.](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html), and don’t waste your time with silly implications that **jsgoddess** is racist for knowing that “articulate” is considered at best condescending and at worst offensive. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/124 "2007-02-04T21:27:01Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] You don’t see any difference between calling someone, “the first articulate African-American”, and calling someone “The first African-American [candidate]” and _going on_ to say that this person is articulate? [/QUOTE] Sure, but I never considered, ever, that he was suggesting Obama is “the first articulate African-American.” So your two choices don’t make any sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/125 "2007-02-04T21:31:18Z")
The bad news it that the stain of racism is not entirely gone. The good news is that this sort of clumsiness is what concerns us as “racism”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/126 "2007-02-04T21:45:03Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] The bad news it that the stain of racism is not entirely gone. The good news is that this sort of clumsiness is what concerns us as “racism”. [/QUOTE] I simply think that racism exists in a very wide spectrum of beliefs and behaviors, from absolute evil to eyerolling clumsiness. Would I vote against Biden for saying Obama was “articulate”? Probably not. But would I vote against someone with foot-in-mouthitis after suffering through 2 terms of Bush? Yes. I want a president who thinks _before_ talking. Bah. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/127 "2007-02-04T22:00:56Z")
Well, he’s gone from dark horse to dead duck. You can rest easy. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/128 "2007-02-04T22:26:06Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Sure, but I never considered, ever, that he was suggesting Obama is “the first articulate African-American.” So your two choices don’t make any sense to me. [/QUOTE] Try following the thread next time. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/129 "2007-02-04T22:40:18Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Try following the thread next time. [/QUOTE] Try following the damned conversation we’re having. Biden was obviously to me referring to AA candidates, not AA people as a whole. You gave two possible interpretations of what he said and neither one was an interpretation that I hold. I do not believe that he said Obama was: > [@you](#): > > the first articulate African-American and I do not believe that he said Obama was: > [@you](#): > > The first African-American [candidate] It’s like you’re asking me if I can tell the difference between him saying “Oogies smook ficknelburger!” and “Ookie shoooo wiffelheimer!” Sure, there’s a difference, but neither one, to me, is what he _said_. Now, it’s your claim, apparently, that he said one of these two things, and that a pause turns it from one to the other. My claim is that he said neither of these two things, and the pause is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/130 "2007-02-04T22:48:06Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] It’s not an odd position at all. It’s well-known that the term has uncomfortable connotations. [Just read this.](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html). [/QUOTE] Well I don’t know how “well known” that is, but I understand the point that is being made. Again, though, the difference in interpretation changes the remark from being simply somewhat clumsly to being overtly racist. At most, it was the former, certainly not the latter. And unfortunely, the article you linked to _still_ presented the quote without the pause and the intervening word from the other person, thus preserving the incorrect interpretation. You don’t see any difference between a person who perhaps didn’t express himself as well as he could, and a person who made a blatantly racist statement? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/131 "2007-02-04T22:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Well, he’s gone from dark horse to dead duck. You can rest easy. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t he have had to at least double his support to rise to the level of dark horse? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/132 "2007-02-04T22:57:22Z")
Geez - you’re just thick as molasses. [QUOTE=jsgoddess] Try following the damned conversation we’re having. [/quote] Excuse me, but was my first post directed to _you_? No, it was not > [@](#): > > Biden was obviously to me referring to AA candidates, not AA people as a whole. . YOU replied to MY post, which was not in any way, shape, or form a comment on what YOU think. > [@](#): > > You gave two possible interpretations of what he said and neither one was an interpretation that I hold. I do not believe that he said Obama was: I was commenting on the opinions that _other_ people hold. Do you always interpret everything as being about you personally? > [@](#): > > Now, it’s your claim, apparently, that he said one of these two things, and that a pause turns it from one to the other. My claim is that he said neither of these two things, and the pause is irrelevant. Wow - could you be more obtuse? My contention is that he did NOT intend to say that Obama is the first articulate African-American, but that the out-of-context quote is leading some people to _believe_ that he did. This is not rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/133 "2007-02-04T22:58:43Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Wow - could you be more obtuse? [/QUOTE] I could, by continuing to attempt to have a conversation with you. But I won’t. Bye. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/134 "2007-02-04T23:00:42Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] Wouldn’t he have had to at least double his support to rise to the level of dark horse? [/QUOTE] “Dark” horse? How long have you been a bigot? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/135 "2007-02-04T23:01:01Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Well, he’s gone from dark horse to dead duck. You can rest easy. [/QUOTE] Yeah, he wasn’t going to get any traction anyway, but wouldn’t it be great to have a primary where all of the candidates were people you wouldn’t mind seeing in office, and none of them had a history of dumbassitude? And then you’d go vote and they’d give you a pony and a million dollars? Wouldn’t that be great? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/136 "2007-02-04T23:01:08Z")
Thank God. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/137 "2007-02-04T23:13:38Z")
Good thing Biden isn’t a non-candidate—like, say, John Kerry—or they’d _really_ be hauling out the big guns. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/138 "2007-02-04T23:16:41Z")
Annnnnnd now I notice that very thing has already been mentioned several times. I really need to hire someone to read threads for me before I post. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/139 "2007-02-04T23:40:58Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] “Dark” horse? How long have you been a bigot? -Joe [/QUOTE] I turned 84 last December and I suppose you can lop off the first couple of years. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411/140 "2007-02-04T23:48:46Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Geez - you’re just thick as molasses. . . . Wow - could you be more obtuse? [/QUOTE] And you are completely out of line in **Great Debates**. Do not make personal insults in this Forum. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silence-on-biden-is-deafening/390411.md?page=8)