# The Silk Road **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996 "2013-07-31T15:36:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/1 "2013-07-31T15:36:48Z")
I was wondering - does anyone have any experience with The Silk Road on the TOR network? Any stories? I am curious in how it works. Basically a person looking to sell makes a post and people make a payment through bitcoin. The seller then ships to the buyer. My questions are: 1. How do we know the seller will send? Do we rely on positive feedback? How do you make sure they don’t take the money and run? 2. Does sending that kind of material through the mail work? Won’t the post office intercept it when they realize the content? In other words…don’t they screen the packages? 3. The buyer is providing an address…aren’t they afraid to be reported? This is all in morbid curiosity, not eh, investment purposes. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/2 "2013-07-31T15:43:22Z")
I’ve read about it, never personally tried it. 1. feedback, just like eBay. 2. very few packages get caught. some do. 3. somehow people think all this is anonymous. (Generally, use an address that isn’t your home.) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/3 "2013-10-02T22:04:07Z")
[Silk Road got shut down by the FBI and the owner identified and arrested.](http://nation.time.com/2013/10/02/alleged-silk-road-proprietor-ross-william-ulbricht-arrested-3-6m-in-bitcoin-seized/) Part of the criminal complaint details a murder for hire scheme by the owner trying to have a hit put on somebody that threatened to release user records. Crazy story, worth a read. If you had Bitcoins in Silk Road wallets, they’re gone. > [@](#): > > U.S. law enforcement officials have shut down down Silk Road, the online drug market, following a raid and an arrest of Ross William Ulbricht, the site’s alleged proprietor. > > According to a Justice Department release, Ulbricht, 29, was arrested in San Francisco and will be presented in San Francisco federal court Wednesday morning. Until Wednesday, the person who ran the site was known only by the pseudonym “Dread Pirate Roberts.” > > In addition to arresting Ulbricht, the Federal Bureau of Investigation seized approximately $3.6 million in Bitcoin, making it the second biggest seizure in the digital currency’s history. > > Federal prosecutors in New York charged Ulbricht with narcotics trafficking conspiracy, computer hacking conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy. A criminal complaint also alleges that in March 2013, Ulbricht engaged in a “murder-for-hire” scheme where he enlisted one Silk Road user to murder another Silk Road user who was threatening to release the identities of all of the website’s users. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/4 "2013-10-02T22:11:04Z")
I saw the news article too and read this article about it. Can anyone further confirm/deny? > **[There's A Secret Internet For Drug Dealers, Assassins, And Pedophiles](https://www.businessinsider.com/tor-silk-road-deep-web-2013-3?op=1)** ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/5 "2013-10-02T22:12:12Z")
We had a poster, since banned, who tried to order stuff from it, and [told us](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=661703) a bit about it. (Are we allowed to talk about banned posters?) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/6 "2013-10-02T22:28:10Z")
It’s all over multiple news sources so it’s definitely real. I’ve seen questions on other sites asking if he was the original owner or if he took it over at some point. Also a lot of theories that the person he hired for the hit was the same person he was trying to kill, but that’s all speculation. Sounds like he got caught red handed with a whole lot of drugs, and I’m sure eventually there will be lots of other charges as they sort it all out. He used his personal gmail acct for an online posting looking for help getting the site off the ground a few years back. The Feds unraveled it from there. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/7 "2013-10-02T23:38:24Z")
Copied from a Reddit post in a thread regarding this story: [QUOTE] > **[Ulbricht Criminal Complaint | PDF](https://www.scribd.com/document/172768269/Ulbricht-Criminal-Complaint)** > > Criminal complaint against Silk Road kingpin Ross Ulbricht. Interesting things from the document so far: [ul] [li]Cryptography was really good, and the complaint states that the TOR network makes it “practically impossible” to trace users.[/li][li]The tumbler worked. It “frustrates attempts to track transactions back to the blockchain and makes it practically impossible to trace users.”[/li][li]There were 9 MILLION bitcoins worth of transactions that passed through the system over time.[/li][li]The server was in a foreign country. The report does not say where.[/li][li]There were 957k registered silkroad accounts.[/li][li]146k unique buyer accounts.[/li][li]It’s unstated from when the investigation started, but they received a complete copy of the Silk Road web server on the 23rd of July 2013. This was all done under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, which implies that they had access to current site information up until the point they shut the site down.[/li][li]This included user account and transaction information. It’s unclear whether or not this covers addresses and other sensitive transaction information. \*\*This also apparently covers at least 60 days worth of messages from the period where the site was copied. It seems from the information, PGP messages were probably ok given that the document said PGP makes it practically impossible to trace the users.[/li][li]Silkroad maintained a small staff of admins, it wasn’t just DPR.[/li][li]It is not certain that PGP worked for DPR, they have messages between the staff and DPR from “forensic analysis of the server.” Unless he was not using PGP.[/li][li]DPR solicited murder for hire. Someone was able to obtain thousands of usernames, passwords, and personal info of silkroad users. It is assumed the feds have this, because they speak about the sample messages of names that the hacker sent. As a result, DPR attempted to have him killed. It is not known if the guy ever was indeed killed.[/li][li]The silk road was basically made from the [shroomery.com](http://shroomery.com), it was the first place he visited. They traced him by finding his old posts on various forums where he advertised it, not as the owner, just saying “I found this site, what do you think about it?”[/li][li]They caught Ross Ulbricht through simple web sleuthing and a few subpoenas.[/li][li]He did his web administrating from an internet cafe on Laguna Street in San Fransisco.[/li][li]Canada intercepted fake ID’s going to his home. This was used to match with fake ID requests.[/li][li]For all the money he made, he lived in a small apartment with room mates for under 1000 a month.[/li][li]Here is the blockchain transaction for the “hit”: [http://blockchain.info/en/tx/4a0a5b6036c0da84c3eb9c2a884b6ad72416d1758470e19fb1d2fa2a145b5601[/li][li]youtube](http://blockchain.info/en/tx/4a0a5b6036c0da84c3eb9c2a884b6ad72416d1758470e19fb1d2fa2a145b5601%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5Dyoutube) URL: [http://www.youtube.com/user/ohyeaross[/li][li]Interview](http://www.youtube.com/user/ohyeaross%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DInterview) between him and a friend: [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olib3jnvSmw%5B/li%5D%5Bli%5DThe) site where he made his first mistake and gave out his email address in PMs with his name. [IT pro needed for venture backed bitcoin startup](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=tt9mt8nqt3lfm0ff1reoduo8j6&topic=47811.msg568744#msg568744%5B/li%5D%5B/QUOTE%5D) [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/8 "2013-10-02T23:47:25Z")
This is fascinating stuff… How he got caught: > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]An agent involved in the investigation (“Agent-1”), found the first few references to SR on the internet from somebody only identified as “altoid”, attempting to promote the site in its beginning days, in January of 2011.[/li][li]In October of the same year, a user also going by the name of “altoid” made a posting on Bitcoin Talk titled “a venture backed Bitcoin startup company”, which directed interested users to “rossulbricht at gmail dot com”.[/li][li]That email address is what led to DPR’s downfall.[/li][li]—[/li][li]After identifying “altoid”, they started connecting the “DPR” identity to Ulbricht pretty quickly.[/li][li]Ulbricht’s Google+ page and YouTube profile both make multiple references to the a website dubbed the “Mises Institute”. DPR’s signature on the SR forums contained a link to the Mises Institute.[/li][li]DPR cited the “Austrian Economic theory” along with the works of Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard, all of which are closesly associated with the Mises Institute.[/li][li]Server logs show that someone logged onto the SR administration panel from San Fransisco around the same time that Ulbricht was staying in San Fransisco.[/li][li]Multiple fake IDs were intercepted by U.S. Customs & Border Patrol while on their way to an address which Ulbricht was living at the time. These IDs all carried photos of Ulbricht but had false names and details. This was around the same time that DPR stated in a message that he was acquiring some fake IDs to buy new servers.[/li][li]When questioned by Homeland Security about the fake IDs, he refused to answer any questions but then stated that anyone could purchase such things using “Silk Road” and “Tor”.[/li][li]The address which Ulbricht was staying at was being rented in cash and he was living with housemates who knew him under a name which corresponded with one of the fake IDs.[/li][li]He posted on StackOverflow using his real name, inquiring about how to use curl/PHP to grab things off Tor, before quickly changing the name to “frosty” (with a fake email: [frosty@frosty.com](mailto:frosty@frosty.com)[3] )[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/9 "2013-10-03T00:17:53Z")
Kind of dumb to try and mail fake ID’s across the border. If he’d just done what every highschooler in the country does and got a fake ID from someone locally instead of using Silk Road, they probably wouldn’t have gotten him in trouble (granted it sounds like he still would’ve been screwed by using his name in his email address.) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/10 "2013-10-03T01:59:50Z")
He used his personal email address :smack: not even a pseudonym. I’d at least use [Mailinator.com](http://Mailinator.com) or something… This is all completely (not) a surprise. But it’s amazing how little effort he put in, and how he expected not to get caught (I assume). In some ways, the libertarian policies are appealing to me, but I’d never identify myself as such because Jesus Christ can you guys shut up about von Mises and Hayek and Rand? And tried to get DHS traffic on “someone’s” website! Basically, I would not be surprised if there was a spam post on SDMB awhile back by some guy who “just discovered” Silk Road. If the mods didn’t obliterate it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/11 "2013-10-03T03:10:02Z")
He also apparently boasted of having someone killed in a “clean hit”…but it turns out the murder never happened because the guy he hired was a Fed. [The Alleged Silk Road Mastermind Teaches Us All How Not to Hire a Hit Man](http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10/02/ross_william_ulbricht_maryland_indictment_the_alleged_silk_road_mastermind.html) > [@](#): > > A new charge against Ulbricht now provides details of that “clean hit,” which, as it turns out, was neither clean nor a hit. An indictment from the U.S. District Court in Maryland alleges that, in January 2013, Ulbricht attempted to arrange the murder of a former employee who had recently been arrested by the feds. Unfortunately for him, the “assassin” he tried to hire was an undercover federal agent. > > According to the indictment, Ulbricht sent the agent $40,000 up front; once the hit was “confirmed” by means of an elaborately staged photograph, Ulbricht sent him another $40,000. Ulbricht’s alleged response to the photograph is dripping with irony: > > ``` > After receiving the photograph, ROSS WILLIAM ULBRICHT, a/k/a “Dread Pirate Roberts,” a/k/a “DPR,” stated that “I’m pissed I had to kill him … but what’s done is done[,]” and that “I just can’t believe he was so stupid[,] … I just wish more people had some integrity[.]” > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/12 "2013-10-03T03:29:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He also apparently boasted of having someone killed in a “clean hit”…but it turns out the murder never happened because the guy he hired was a Fed. [Hitmen are always undercover cops](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/08/hitmen-are-always-undercover-cops.html) ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/13 "2013-10-03T14:42:15Z")
I can’t believe this thread got some traction! I am amazed it went on so long when he was so incredibly sloppy. Using his own email…with his real name! Back to my original question; how did this all work? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/14 "2013-10-03T14:50:02Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I can’t believe this thread got some traction! > > I am amazed it went on so long when he was so incredibly sloppy. Using his own email…with his real name! > > Back to my original question; how did this all work? Silk Road was a “secret” website not accessible except through a special browser (TOR) that keeps its users anonymous. You sign in through that and go browsing for what you want. I actually checked it out once out of curiosity but didn’t try to buy anything. It was basically like an Amazon for illicit stuff. You could browse various vendors of pot, heroin, prescription drugs, really anything you can think of. You have to use Bitcoins to pay, and names/mailing addresses are sent in some kind of encryption format that’s hard to crack. From what I’ve heard, it was an easy and safe way to buy drugs. ETA: Some people on Reddit (at r/silkroad) are freaking out, obviously, because they were fronted large amounts of money to buy drugs and now the money and the drugs are gone. Several people stating quite plainly (if they’re being honest) that they’re as good as dead. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/15 "2013-10-03T14:54:39Z")
I thought, once upon a time, I read about them also dealing in various other illegal items (child porn, etc). But I haven’t seen that angle in any of the articles so I’m not sure if Silk Road actually handled that sort of thing or if that was some other “secret internet”. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/16 "2013-10-03T14:57:17Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I thought, once upon a time, I read about them also dealing in various other illegal items (child porn, etc). But I haven’t seen that angle in any of the articles so I’m not sure if Silk Road actually handled that sort of thing or if that was some other “secret internet”. I don’t think that was Silk Road. You can buy porn on there but it’s just passwords to legit sites or data dumps of videos from pay sites. Like if you wanted to buy the entire “Bang Bus” series without joining the site. However, the whole “secret internet” thing, I forget the actual term for it, has all kinds of stuff including CP like you mention, sights for hiring hit men (I mean undercover cops), basically anything you can think of. They’re separate from Silk Road though. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/17 "2013-10-03T15:08:06Z")
Makes sense. I remember a series of “secret internet” articles from 6-12 months ago (from various sources, it seemed to be a ‘thing’) and may have conflated them in my head since only Silk Road had a snazzy memorable name. I was mainly curious why it wouldn’t be in the Silk Road bust reporting if it existed there. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/18 "2013-10-03T15:10:11Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Silk Road was a “secret” website not accessible except through a special browser (TOR) that keeps its users anonymous. You sign in through that and go browsing for what you want. I actually checked it out once out of curiosity but didn’t try to buy anything. It was basically like an Amazon for illicit stuff. You could browse various vendors of pot, heroin, prescription drugs, really anything you can think of. You have to use Bitcoins to pay, and names/mailing addresses are sent in some kind of encryption format that’s hard to crack. From what I’ve heard, it was an easy and safe way to buy drugs. > ETA: Some people on Reddit (at r/silkroad) are freaking out, obviously, because they were fronted large amounts of money to buy drugs and now the money and the drugs are gone. Several people stating quite plainly (if they’re being honest) that they’re as good as dead. I’ve done the same thing, visiting. See my OP questions to get an idea of what I am wondering. The way the tech works is simple to me, I’m more curious about the social and systemic workings. And yes, I have no doubt that some people will die because of that site going down. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/19 "2013-10-03T15:11:44Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I am amazed it went on so long when he was so incredibly sloppy. Using his own email…with his real name! Eh, he wasn’t that bad. He used his own name once, two and a half years ago, and only when he was pretending to be someone looking for information on the site, not its creator. So I’m not sure that its “incredibly sloppy” so much as that you have to be incredibly careful to not get caught doing this kind of thing. Since almost everything on the internet is stored for years and is often easily searchable, even the smallest fuckup years ago can be uncovered once someone decides to put some effort into looking for it. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996/20 "2013-10-03T15:33:24Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I’ve done the same thing, visiting. See my OP questions to get an idea of what I am wondering. > > The way the tech works is simple to me, I’m more curious about the social and systemic workings. To answer your questions, best to my knowledge: > [@](#): > > 1. How do we know the seller will send? Do we rely on positive feedback? How do you make sure they don’t take the money and run? Feedback. People do get ripped off without any real recourse, but those sellers don’t last long. Just like eBay or wherever else… there are shitty sellers that will fuck you over, but they won’t get much business in the long run. > [@](#): > > 1. Does sending that kind of material through the mail work? Won’t the post office intercept it when they realize the content? In other words…don’t they screen the packages? From what I hear, it’s pretty easy to get stuff through the mail and FedEx and sellers use both. The PO doesn’t routinely search packages without a good reason and I hear that even with pot, which has a very distinct and strong odor, the sellers usually vacuum seal it and package it in a way that avoids it being detected. When things are intercepted, they’re usually just confiscated and destroyed and a notice sent to the buyer saying so. > [@](#): > > 1. The buyer is providing an address…aren’t they afraid to be reported? The Vendors probably have more to fear than the buyers as they’re the bigger fish that could get into real trouble. Part of this guy’s legal issues involve him trying to arrange a hit on somebody threatening to release user information (which was probably all a setup by the Feds). I found this["Ultimate Guide for Using Silk Road"](http://www.highexistence.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-using-silk-road-the-anonymous-online-drug-market/) that might help, though I understand this could be edging the rules of promoting illegal activities. However, since the site is locked down I would think this link should be ok to share for educational purposes as Silk Road is dead dead dead. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-silk-road/664996.md?page=2)