# The Simpsons poke the Politically Incorrect Bear - The Problem with Apu **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091 "2018-04-09T17:17:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/1 "2018-04-09T17:17:10Z")
Story here in the NYTimes: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/arts/television/the-simpsons-responds-to-criticism-about-apu.html?hpw&rref=television&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/arts/television/the-simpsons-responds-to-criticism-about-apu.html?hpw&rref=television&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well) > [@NYTimes](#): > > At the end of 2017, Hank Azaria, the voice behind Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, a convenience-store owner on “The Simpsons” with a thick Indian accent, responded to a recent groundswell of criticism that the character was racist. It came to the forefront thanks to Hari Kondabolu, a comedian of South Asian descent, who made a documentary, “The Problem With Apu,” which debuted last fall. In the last episode, they had a scene where Marge reads a book to Lisa - and while that is happening: > [@](#): > > At one point, Lisa turns to directly address the TV audience and says, “Something that started decades ago and was applauded and inoffensive is now politically incorrect. What can you do?” The shot then pans to a framed picture of Apu at the bedside with the line, “Don’t have a cow!” inscribed on it. > > Marge responds: “Some things will be dealt with at a later date.” > > Followed by Lisa saying, “If at all.” > > The writers of the episode — one of whom was Matt Groening, the show’s creator — received immediate backlash. Some viewers found the response tone deaf, and criticized the choice of Lisa, often the show’s moral center, to voice it. (And not to mention: “Don’t have a cow!” could be interpreted as a jab at Apu’s Hinduism.) Man, this seems stupid for them to focus on. The character of Apu has always been a tad sketchy, but because the Simpsons overall has been a voice of satire, I know I was just looking the other way. But when the documentary came out, **The Problem with Apu** , it was hard for me to not think “yeah, I kinda always thought it was sketchy.” But reading how **Al Jean** and even **Matt Groening** thought it was okay to push back - oy. Not okay. It feels like they are arguing for the Washington Redskins - it was cool back in the day, but even then, not really… ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/2 "2018-04-09T18:23:20Z")
Perceptions of political incorrectness are often born from people with nothing better to do with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/3 "2018-04-09T18:49:31Z")
Lisa is rarely the “moral center.” She is often judgmental, and if right in some occasions, it’s often because the people around her (i.e. Homer) are more wrong. I am just reading the synopsis. He compares Apu to blackface. I’m not sure I’d make those equivalent, there are some stark historical differences. Otherwise I’d have to reserve judgment of both before seeing both the documentary and the episode. He is one of the more realized characters on the show, both fitting positive and negative stereotypes, while at the same time bucking many of them. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/4 "2018-04-09T18:57:08Z")
This situation reminds me exactly of the Cleveland Indians/Chief Wahoo situation. There’s a bunch of people on one side saying “it’s a loving tribute! Look, he’s better than all the white people!” and there’s people on the other side saying “I really don’t like how the actual portrayal makes me feel, as a person who is being portrayed by this cartoon.” The people on the “side” of the cartoon really have no ability to see it from the offended party’s side. Frankly I’m disappointed in The Simpsons for bringing out the “political correctness” buzz phrase. Trite. It’s not “political correctness” it’s so much more nuanced. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/5 "2018-04-09T19:05:51Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Perceptions of political incorrectness are often born from people with nothing better to do with their lives. [Another article](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/the-problem-with-apu-the-simpsons.html) in The New York Times describes some parts of the documentary in which some Indian-Americans describe how the caricature affected them, “In one sequence, the actor Aziz Ansari (‘Master of None’) describes being in a car with his dad when a man drives up and asks them where the nearest Quik-E-Mart is. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the 19th surgeon general of the United States, talks about enduring the taunts of an Apu-imitating bully in the seventh grade. And Maulik Pancholy (‘30 Rock’) recounts how much he hated going into 7-Eleven stores as a kid, lest his friends see an Indian store clerk and start doing ‘the Apu thing.’” It’s not just complaining about political incorrectness for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/6 "2018-04-09T19:15:57Z")
How the hell is he supposed to talk? With a Swedish accent? The same pathetic morons who bitch about such things are never satisfied. You’d think in this case they’d be applauding Apu’s “inclusion” and “acceptance” on the show. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/7 "2018-04-09T19:17:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s not just complaining about political incorrectness for no good reason. Complaints about political incorrectness are always for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/8 "2018-04-09T19:20:58Z")
There’s a stereotype. Where I live, there really are a very disproportionate number of Indian men working in convenience stores. It is obviously not an accident or a coincidence. I can think that Indian men working in convenience stores is a bad thing, or a good thing, or make other judgments about it, but I can’t un-observe what I have observed. If I’m writing a comedy about a boy with a skateboard, do I make sure he never hangs out by a convenience store, because there might be an Indian man in there and it would be wrong to show that? Let’s say I decide to show it, do I have to make sure that the fictional boy is so stupid that he can’t figure out there’s a man behind the counter? Or too stupid to figure out that the man talks with a different accent than the skateboard boy does? Or… does everyone in the story have to look white and talk with the same accent? Wait, that’s not good either… ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/9 "2018-04-09T19:28:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Another article](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/the-problem-with-apu-the-simpsons.html) in The New York Times describes some parts of the documentary in which some Indian-Americans describe how the caricature affected them, “In one sequence, the actor Aziz Ansari (‘Master of None’) describes being in a car with his dad when a man drives up and asks them where the nearest Quik-E-Mart is. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the 19th surgeon general of the United States, talks about enduring the taunts of an Apu-imitating bully in the seventh grade. And Maulik Pancholy (‘30 Rock’) recounts how much he hated going into 7-Eleven stores as a kid, lest his friends see an Indian store clerk and start doing ‘the Apu thing.’” > > It’s not just complaining about political incorrectness for no good reason. I am a South Asian man who was born in 1980. I was mocked with an Apu voice and “do you want a slushy /go to the Quik-e-mart” CONSTANTLY in middle school. Yes, Apu was definitely used as a slur against South Asian people since he was introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/10 "2018-04-09T19:28:42Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Another article](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/the-problem-with-apu-the-simpsons.html) in The New York Times describes some parts of the documentary in which some Indian-Americans describe how the caricature affected them, “In one sequence, the actor Aziz Ansari (‘Master of None’) describes being in a car with his dad when a man drives up and asks them where the nearest Quik-E-Mart is. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the 19th surgeon general of the United States, talks about enduring the taunts of an Apu-imitating bully in the seventh grade. And Maulik Pancholy (‘30 Rock’) recounts how much he hated going into 7-Eleven stores as a kid, lest his friends see an Indian store clerk and start doing ‘the Apu thing.’” > > It’s not just complaining about political incorrectness for no good reason. I sympathize but “There will always be assholes. We cant be held responsible”-Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/11 "2018-04-09T19:30:46Z")
So you’d been OK with it had Carl (Homer’s African-American co-worker) been voiced with an accent out of Amos ‘n’ Andy? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/12 "2018-04-09T19:31:17Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Perceptions of political incorrectness are often born from people with nothing better to do with their lives. I think it’s more that we’ve only recently started giving a shit what people besides white men think. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/13 "2018-04-09T19:35:09Z")
Do they want an Indian character portrayed in a positive and realistic way? Then they have better create, produce and write their own show. It cannot happen in this one. None of the characters are positive realistic portrayals. At least they weren’t 15 years ago, when the show was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/14 "2018-04-09T19:40:18Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think it’s more that we’ve only recently started giving a shit what people besides white men think. THIS. But here’s the point of discussion… How do we solve a problem like Apu? He is/was one of the most realized and focused on supporting characters on the show. Some of the arguments against him rely on him only existing in the context of “stereotype who works at the Kwik-E-Mart.” Accents don’t exist in a void…and that it’s a white dude doing the voice is absolutely cringey, but can that be a deal-breaker in voice-over work? It seems that the producers once they realized this was an issue and that people cared enough to make a documentary about it, should have really looked at how to address it in a positive way. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/15 "2018-04-09T19:43:17Z")
Sesame Street used to have a problem. Oscar The Grouch was cynical and not nice. The Cookie Monster was greedy. Sometimes characters are not good. Bart is not good. Homer is not good. Apu is not good. Many characters on The Simpsons, I have noticed, treat each other quite badly. I wonder if The Simpsons might be partly about things (and people) that are not good. Wouldn’t that be a very strange thing for a satirical show to be about? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/16 "2018-04-09T19:49:08Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > But here’s the point of discussion… How do we solve a problem like Apu? > > He is/was one of the most realized and focused on supporting characters on the show. Some of the arguments against him rely on him only existing in the context of “stereotype who works at the Kwik-E-Mart.” Accents don’t exist in a void…and that it’s a white dude doing the voice is absolutely cringey, but can that be a deal-breaker in voice-over work? The show is about a “bad”, rebellious, immature boy. “Bad” rebellious immature boys make fun of the man at the convenience store. It could be argued that if The Simpsons did **not** make fun of Apu then it would be a hollow and badly-made show. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/17 "2018-04-09T19:56:35Z")
I have a feeling you don’t actually understand the argument here. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/18 "2018-04-09T20:13:04Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I have a feeling you don’t actually understand the argument here. I do. I just think it’s not as simple an argument as it’s being portrayed. Let’s say Apu was based upon - and voiced by - Manoj Bhargava, and was treated with respect in every way, both the portrayal and the way the other characters interact with him. And while we’re at it, let’s make all the characters treat each other with respect, and let’s show true justice being done in every situation. Would The Simpsons really be better? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/19 "2018-04-09T20:16:47Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > THIS. > > But here’s the point of discussion… How do we solve a problem like Apu? > > He is/was one of the most realized and focused on supporting characters on the show. Some of the arguments against him rely on him only existing in the context of “stereotype who works at the Kwik-E-Mart.” Accents don’t exist in a void…and that it’s a white dude doing the voice is absolutely cringey, but can that be a deal-breaker in voice-over work? > > It seems that the producers once they realized this was an issue and that people cared enough to make a documentary about it, should have really looked at how to address it in a positive way. I think time and culture will solve the question. The show was once relevant and vibrant, but hasn’t been since the previous century. It will fade and go away. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091/20 "2018-04-09T20:17:23Z")
You can’t make a respectful comedy about disrespect. Or at least you can’t make The Simpsons respectful and have it still be The Simpsons. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-simpsons-poke-the-politically-incorrect-bear-the-problem-with-apu/812091.md?page=2)