The 23rd Psalm…if you’re convinced you’re 100% atheist, read it. Still sure?
That
Yup.
Read how God slaughtered an entire generation of Egyptian children. Are you sure you want to worship such a mass murderer?
Technically, he’s murdered everyone who ever lived. And he will continue to do so. :smack: Oh, he could have been satisfied with that, but he kills dogs, trees, EVERYTHING :mad:
Yes. This song is only effective if you already believe. It does nothing to convince anyone who doesn’t. Plus it’s manifestly false in the comfort it offers. God frequently never turns up in that valley.
Yes, i’m afraid. 
But I actually came into the thread to suggest Psalm 23. Definetly a good piece of writing.
Also this;
I wrote my post, clicked submit and…got shut out of these boards for 30 minutes, only to find the post didn’t “take.” Lovely.
This is near the direction I was headed in. I suspect there are many people brought up in not-particularly-religious homes who find something like this, and it resonates. Maybe they hear a song, like “Silent Night” or “Amazing Grace,” and they’re surprised at the response they feel to it, even though they’ve never gone to church etc.
I’m NOT stumping for, “See? That’s proof that there is a god!” I’m just saying that there is a spirituality in people that often lies dormant. It could be that self-avowed atheists even pause at moments like these, finding a few embers that haven’t gone out. This is why I say that if someone professes to be atheist, I’d have to think they don’t react at all to these things.
Maybe I could make the same argument for Valentine’s Day. Some people have sworn off love but if a certain song comes on the radio, or maybe a movie on TV or if there’s a poem they hear, it provokes a reaction that they thought was impossible. But I’m not stumping for “Love conquers all” or anything along those lines, either.
And in neither case do I think it’s a simple “memory” thing, like remembering a time you and the family had a great day at church or the first time you fell in love or anything like that. I think it’s hardwired in us—maybe for better, maybe for worse, but very difficult to extinguish completely.
Maybe, maybe not, I don’t know. I wasn’t going there. “Believing,” as I intended the term, meant simply “acknowledging it exists.”
I’m saying, rather, that the 23rd psalm is so beautifully written that it speaks to me. I think it’s a cunning piece of writing, like a magician doing a trick and you can’t figure out how he did it.
Wow, fascinating…an atheist who enjoys Psalm 23!
So Revenant, are you also immune to “Amazing Grace,” Michelangelo’s Pietà, all of it?
Dude, take the proselytizing to GD or another board.
GANDALF: End? No, the journey doesn’t end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
I like the 23rd Psalm and “Amazing Grace,” “Ode to Joy,” and many other religious works. They just don’t make me believe in God (or stir memories either. I’ve never really believed in God). I appreciate the art, the emotional expression, the longing, the attempts to comfort, things like that. I also like some Hindu and Buddhist art, Homer, Gilgamesh, Ancient statues of Greek and Roman Gods, Indian religious ragas, American Indian folk tales, the list goes on. I’ve never believed in any of it but religious feeling brings out an intensity and seriousness of expression that results in good, well crafted art.
from A Fan’s Notes by Fredrick Exely
I ran until the sweat, having already rendered my jacket heavy as wet rags, formed pools in the sockets of my eyes and I could not see, sweat that there mingled with the tears and blood to run down my hot, steaming cheeks; ran until I thought my head would explode and my chest consume itself in flames; ran until my legs became wobbly, then mush, and I could run no more. When I finally stopped, I was on Seventh Avenue, many blocks north. Seeing they were not behind me, I staggered into the entrance of a closed drug store and lay face down on the pavement, lay with my head resting heavily on my crossed arms. In a moment Would fall asleep. But before I did, all the dread and the dismay and the foreboding I had been experiencing disappeared, were abruptly gone, and I fell quiet. The disappeared because, as I say, I understood the last and most important reason why I fought. The knowledge caused me to weep very quietly, numbly, caused me to weep because in my heart I knew I had always understood this last and most distressing reason, which rendered the grief I had caused myself and others all for naught. I fought because I understood and could not bear to understand, that is was my destiny - unlike that of my father whose fate it was to hear the roar of the crowd - to sit in the stands with most men and acclaim others. It was my fate, my destiny, my end, to be a fan.
It depends heavily on context, but I’ve always been very very fond of the following line from David Weber’s Ashes of Victory
“Oops.” 
Immune in what sense? Many religious works certainly can move me, but then so do many works of fiction or art that doesn’t claim to represent a grand truth. Amazing Grace, in particular, can set me off - but there are times when i’m unbothered, so I pretty much put that down to the singer and not the writing itself being brilliant. There’s probably a good many atheists (or just people of other religions) who would agree with me.
Anyway, don’t want to hijack too much, so in way of balance I give you one that actually has an incorrect Biblical quote in it.
Gotta be Webster. Well, maybe Donne. But I think Webster:
I love that! For years I had it written up on a postcard on my wall.
Another passage I adore (especially reading it out loud) is from To Kill A Mockingbird:
“Somehow, it was hotter then: a black dog suffered on a summer’s day; bony mules hitched to Hoover carts flicked flies in the sweltering shade of the live oaks on the square. Men’s stiff collars wilted by nine in the morning. Ladies bathed before noon, after their three o’clock naps, and by nightfall were like soft teacakes with frostings of sweat and sweet talcum.”
We were somewhere outside of Barstow in the desert, when the drugs began to take hold.
I don’t know about the greatest thing ever, but I’m fond of:
I am nobody
A red sinking autumn sun
Took my name away.
-Richard Wright
Oh, no, I’m seriously NOT proselytizing. For one thing I think everybody finds their own brand of religion or spirituality or call it what you will—or decides that none of it makes sense and leaves it alone. I totally respect all of the above. I would never presume to know more about it (in case I didn’t post it earlier, I don’t go to church and haven’t read three pages of the Bible) and I never thought it was my job to change or “fix” anybody.
I think it’s fascinating that an atheist likes the writing of the 23rd psalm and can appreciate it as good writing, period. That, and other posts, answers my question.
I guess my “never chewed the fat with avowed atheists” colors are showing. I’m genuinely curious and hope I haven’t offended anybody.
OK, I see what you mean. You have a much broader experience base than I, but I can think of other (read: non-Christian) things in film or lit that I have found touching as well, and you’re absolutely right that when it’s good, it all makes for very good art.
Since one poster thought I was proselytizing, I’ll return to a comment I made about us being “hardwired” for things like religion. One subject that interests me is ethology. Ethologists propose that we’re hardwired for certain behaviors; the sucking reflex to get nourishment from the mother’s breast, for instance, helps us survive as a specie.
That’s simple; there are far more complex behaviors that we seem to be hardwired to perform. Smiling, for instance…even blind babies smile at the same time as normally-sighted babies, which probably helps form bonds with their caretakers. Notice, however, that it isn’t a learned behavior: it’s hardwired.
Well, many behaviors seem common, on a societal level, around the world. One is the propensity for war and another is a desire for body adornment, for instance. But the one I was thinking of in this thread is a belief in a supernatural being (god, if you will). The god(s) may change from place to place, or across the centuries, but it seems to be a common thread among peoples, which made some ethologists think it was hardwired, buried in our genes with the sucking reflex.
So the question in my head was, are there people who, even though surrounded by believers telling them “This is the truth” and exposed to some exquisite art created by believers etc.—who still don’t believe?
I think my post was: “If you think you’re 100% atheist, read Psalm 23. Then let’s see,” or something like that. Will the art cause a string deep inside to resonate in sympathy? Posters have told me not, and I like the fact that the artistry of the psalm didn’t go unnoticed because that eliminates the “just didn’t get it” possibility.
Conclusion: perhaps contrary to the ethologists, the belief in a supernatural being isn’t hardwired after all.
Sorry, I really didn’t mean to hijack the thread.