# The single most reprehensible thing the free market ever did? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329 "2010-07-28T17:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/81 "2010-08-01T21:06:14Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > And I’m not sure how the deliberate dumping of hazardous waste is a failure of markets. If laws against dumping waste exist, and someone dumps waste in violation of the law, even if they have great incentive to do so (because proper cleanup is expensive, etc.), how is that the market’s fault? Why can’t this argument be used against _any_ assertion that the market _ever did anything at all_, good or bad, legal or illegal, noble or reprehensible? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/82 "2010-08-01T21:18:49Z")
[http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt\_bros.html](http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html) In recent history the 1973 take over of the silver market by the Hunt Brothers of Texas comes to mind. I personally was picking up silver bars at that time only to have the entire market get gamed by the Hunts. I lost a few bucks. This is Getty ,Diamond Jim Brady marketing . ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/83 "2010-08-01T22:32:49Z")
Perhaps a more direct question would be “What is the single most reprehensible thing ever done in the name of the free market?”. Let’s take for example the case of Dole using the pesticide DBCP, even though they knew that it causes liver, kidney, and lung damage in those exposed. Even after the EPA banned DBCP in the United States, Dole continued to use it overseas. If, hypothetically, the Nicaraguan government had (at Dole’s behest) refrained from banning DBCP in order to preserve Dole’s profits and the jobs provided by Dole, then that would be a decision made in the name of the free market. ---
**Author:** ![transprog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@transprog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transprog)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/84 "2010-08-01T23:24:52Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > Perhaps a more direct question would be “What is the single most reprehensible thing ever done in the name of the free market?”. Hate to nitpick, but I don’t see anything being done in the name of the free market. A company like Dole does things not in the name of the free market but in the name of profit. Dole is simply following the logic of a profit-based business. If it’s more profitable to use a certain pesticide and that pesticide is allowed, then it will use that pesticide. Use of that pesticide might become less profitable, if consumers boycott Dole because of its use of said pesticide. But without an uproar Dole will follow what is most logical. The blame would rest in your example with the Nicaraguan government’s failure to ban the pesticide. But you add that Dole exerted influence with the Nicaraguan government and this is historically a common occurrence in Latin America (I’m not familiar with this specific case though). So Dole shares responsibility of course. But what about us, the consumers (I just ate a banana by the way)? Do we share some of that blame? If Dole is powerful enough to sway a government, the only power we have is simply not to buy their produce, until they stop using it. I guess one other possible solution would be to work to replace our current economic system with one that is not based on profit, but that’s imaginable to most people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/85 "2010-08-02T02:58:15Z")
One continues to hope that profit is not the exclusive motive, that someday issues like common decency and an obligation to humanity might muscle their way into importance. Indeed, many of us labor to that end, but its taking a lot longer than we thought. We could use your help, if you’ve nothing better to do. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/86 "2010-08-02T04:35:02Z")
Bringing affordable broadband to the masses. My porn addiction hasn’t been the same since. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/87 "2010-08-02T04:46:20Z")
> [@transprog](#): > > The blame would rest in your example with the Nicaraguan government’s failure to ban the pesticide. But you add that Dole exerted influence with the Nicaraguan government and this is historically a common occurrence in Latin America (I’m not familiar with this specific case though). So Dole shares responsibility of course. But what about us, the consumers (I just ate a banana by the way)? Do we share some of that blame? If Dole is powerful enough to sway a government, the only power we have is simply not to buy their produce, until they stop using it. I guess one other possible solution would be to work to replace our current economic system with one that is not based on profit, but that’s imaginable to most people. And what of the voters who elect the Nicaraguan officials\*? Suppose they respond to a campaign platform plank of creating a business-friendly environment to bring foreign investment, and hence, jobs. That’s a good plank, up to a point, because a business-friendly environment indeed can bring foreign investment and jobs and increased prosperity with it. It’s just that if you go too far with it, the government ends up bending over backwards for foreign companies, letting them run amok and do things like use cheap pesticide that poisons plantation workers. There’s plenty of blame to go around, but everyone in this example is acting the way they do because of the notion that a freer market is a better market. \*For the sake of argument, let’s assume that we’re dealing with free and honest elections, even if we need to make it a hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329/88 "2010-08-04T01:07:09Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > > > Winner > > Except that for a long time, slavery was not seen as wrong or was the fate of the vanquished, etc. I don’t think this is really true. I think the the slaves themselves knew it was wrong, and certain empathic or perceptive people always knew it to be so. It wasn’t _officially_ admitted by the cultures that practiced it or the people that benefited from it, of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-single-most-reprehensible-thing-the-free-market-ever-did/548329.md?page=4)