# The Situation of the Basque language is awfully overestimated **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 23, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008 "2023-08-23T22:51:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/21 "2023-08-24T00:53:43Z")
I mean that despite the efforts to revive it, basque is still facing challenges ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/22 "2023-08-24T00:54:18Z")
I understand that but why should I care? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/23 "2023-08-24T00:57:10Z")
You care enough to post in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/24 "2023-08-24T00:57:57Z")
Because those goddamn redditors cannt be trusted! ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/25 "2023-08-24T01:00:55Z")
You might just be too emotionally invested in what some random strangers on the internet say. And they aren’t even linguists, let alone in charge of which language gets to thrive. I mean, who are “redditors”? It’s Biff and Scooter, middle schoolers from Aurora, Illinois. And Matilda, the bored cosmetologist, and Ol’ Ernie, who retired so he could spend quality time with his iPad, calling people names online. Of course they can’t be “trusted”. And they are not people you should worry about. . I’m from a region where there are Romansh speakers; another language dwindling in numbers. Which is a shame, but inevitable. But I would never pay any attention to what some “untrustworthy” redditors (or Dopers) said about it. That way lies madness… ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/26 "2023-08-24T01:16:12Z")
I’m just going with what “Procrustus” says that redditors cannot be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/27 "2023-08-24T01:17:21Z")
There’s always this: > **[Duty Calls](https://xkcd.com/386/)** > > What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong! In the long run Basque can’t be saved. Neither can French or Spanish. It’ll all be Chinglish eventually. In the long run none of us here today can be saved either. Are there things that language enthusiasts and language zealots could do to artificially delay the inevitable day of extinction? Sure. Is it a worthy cause? Probably not. Is preserving it in the equivalent of a “language zoo” worthwhile? Maybe. More for academic interest than for practical value. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/28 "2023-08-24T01:18:39Z")
French and Spanish are in pretty good position. They aren’t going extinct anytime soon. It’s high unlikely ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/29 "2023-08-24T01:22:21Z")
Disregard. The request for paragraph breaks had already been made. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/30 "2023-08-24T01:24:04Z")
I said in the long term. In 500-1000 years they’ll be gone. French long before Spanish. It won’t matter to you or me, but it’ll happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/31 "2023-08-24T01:24:46Z")
Basque is going to die out long before French and Spanish if nothing is done. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/32 "2023-08-24T01:35:09Z")
Quite right. In the universe of human languages, you’re either big and getting bigger or small and getting smaller. In the modern interconnected world there is no force spawning new languages as was once common in isolated bands and isolated outposts. The end state is clear: humanity will speak one language with room for some dialects and certainly room for high- and low-status registers. Exactly how and when the tide will come for each smaller language is hard to know. But come it will. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/33 "2023-08-24T01:35:55Z")
We had a Basque speaking Doper. She was a consultant but dang if I can remember her name now. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/34 "2023-08-24T01:36:37Z")
I believe you’re thinking of @Nava. She still pops in from time to time. A fascinating lady with a wide-ranging experience of life. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/35 "2023-08-24T01:41:25Z")
Nava for the win! Thanks dude, it was bugging me I couldn’t remember her name. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/36 "2023-08-24T01:43:45Z")
**Moderator Note** Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board! > [@Jagraze1](#): > > Because those goddamn redditors cannt be trusted! If you want to talk about the Basque language, that’s great! You’ll probably get some interesting conversation about it here. But this is not the place to bitch about reddit. Let’s have no more discussion about reddit, please. If you want to bitch about reddit, do it on reddit. Not here. Again, welcome, and we hope that you enjoy your time here. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/37 "2023-08-24T02:04:51Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Are there things that language enthusiasts and language zealots could do to artificially delay the inevitable day of extinction? Sure. Is it a worthy cause? Probably not. Is preserving it in the equivalent of a “language zoo” worthwhile? Maybe. More for academic interest than for practical value. I’m sorry, but this is nonsense. Languages have inherent value. There are deeply entwined with culture, and therefore also with emotion. If you talk to bilinguals, you’ll find it’s pretty common for people to describe having slightly different personalities in different languages. They do matter, and Basque matters. It’s not just for a “language zoo.” As for the OP’s point, it’s really difficult to count speakers of a language because: 1. How fluent do you have to be to count? 2. There are people whose agendas require overcounting, and other people whose agendas require undercounting. 3. If a language has been stigmatized, people aren’t always honest about their relationship with it, especially to strangers. I don’t speak Basque, but I speak Welsh (as a second language), which is similarly CONSTANTLY being accused of irrelevance, uselessness, and dying-ness. And yet it thrives, and the people who DO use it actually find it has value, even though literally all of them could just use English instead. All languages are either growing or shrinking, as said above, and all languages are one generation away from extinction. (If there are millions of people in that generation, extinction is unlikely, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/38 "2023-08-24T02:07:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Quite right. In the universe of human languages, you’re either big and getting bigger or small and getting smaller. In the modern interconnected world there is no force spawning new languages as was once common in isolated bands and isolated outposts. That is true – a lot of the lesser-spoken languages are in a more precarious position than ever because of the expansion of communications creating an even stronger than ever incentive to use one of the major “common tongues” as the everyday norm in order to have greater economic opportunity and access to information. In the _best_ of cases _some_ of the weaker languages may become a ritual or ceremonial language that _is_ preserved and learned _in that context_ and held as the heritage and identity of the people, but is not the real cradle tongue and communication instrument of regular use of the general population. There are also cases of languages being maintained even from very precarious states (e.g. a number of American indigenous languages) but those are ever constantly at risk. In the case of Euskera there is the element at play that once Spain liberalized and it became officialized in Euskadi and Navarra, a greater _public presence_ was given, that may lead _some unsophisticated observers_ to the false impression as to whether it is coming on strong or not. But “official” and educational use does not mean popular use, and it’s not a matter of independence either --Irish Gaelic is another example where the language being “official” of the nation does not mean that the masses are making regular use. Someone asked who cares, well, every time Earth loses a language a whole way of understanding the universe is lost. Sure, that does not put money in the bank or produce better cars, but still… Basque the language and Basque the identity survived together the Celts, Romans, Goths, Franks, and the various variations of what became the Spanish and the French, often with intense resistance. Pretty good record. To fade away with a whimper because the new generations no longer see the need or the use, or else are of the impression that everything’s fine and no further effort is needed to preserve it, is kind of disheartening. However, in the end that _is_ what happens in almost every case, but it doesn’t mean the effort should not be made to preserve the diversity. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/39 "2023-08-24T02:32:32Z")
So who should I trust then? The Websites or the Redditors? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008/40 "2023-08-24T02:40:34Z")
Have a healthy skepticism about all of them, and look for the actual evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-situation-of-the-basque-language-is-awfully-overestimated/989008.md?page=3)