# The slow downfall of Pixar **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [July 28, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431 "2025-07-28T16:14:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/1 "2025-07-28T16:14:49Z")
Thought there might be a thread about this but there was not one yet. It doesn’t feel like all that long ago that Pixar had the reputation of “never having made a bad movie.” _Toy Story 3_ grossed well over a billion dollars, back when a billion was really a big deal in Hollywood. _Wall-E_, the other two Toy Stories, _Ratatouille_, etc. were all huge smashes. The film had a perfect streak all the way up until 2011 with _Cars 2,_ its first movie to get a negative response, and even then it rebounded with decently-strong performance with _Brave, Inside Out_, etc. But now, Pixar has really slid to near-rock-bottom. Its latest film, _Elio_, bombed with an opening weekend of less than $21 million. It’s now made only about $133 million in total…against its budget of $150-200 million. The studio that had a reputation for freshness and originality is now churning out Toy Story 5, The Incredibles 3 and Coco 2, starting to re-milk the drained cows and re-microwave the same food over and over again with endless sequels like the other corporatized studios. Somewhere along the way, maybe 2015-ish, Pixar just totally lost its mojo. It can’t make anything original or new anymore. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/2 "2025-07-28T16:39:27Z")
Are you saying **Coco, Onward, Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Elemental, and Elio** aren’t original? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/3 "2025-07-28T16:55:26Z")
I feel it may have been the death of Joe Ranft. (He died in a car accident in 2005.) Ranft was Pixar’s “head of story”. He apparently was the guy who was supposed to take a step back and look at the overall movie that the studio was making while other people focused on the details or managed the business stuff. He was around when Pixar made Toy Story, A Bug’s Life, Toy Story 2, Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, and Cars. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/4 "2025-07-28T17:00:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I feel it may have been the death of Joe Ranft. (He died in a car accident in 2005.) That may be part of it. I think too that it was more attuned to quality when it was at least nominally independent. It was acquired by Disney in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/5 "2025-07-28T17:05:29Z")
To be fair, when I went to see the latest reboot of the _Fantastic Four_, the trailers were for the new version of _The Running Man_ and the latest sequels for _Now You See It_, _Avatar_, _Wicked_, and a couple of others I can’t even remember. I don’t think there was an “original” film in the bunch. So it’s hardly Pixar’s fault that people like to go see known properties. Also, I haven’t seen a single ad or trailer for _Elio_ apart from a couple of posters on public transportation so I’m not surprised its numbers are low. Disney’s _Strange World_ had the same problem - if you don’t heavily plug your film, it’ll get lost in the noise. That said, I have no plans to see _Toy Story 5_. But I think there could still be life in _The Incredibles_ franchise with the right story. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/6 "2025-07-28T17:07:22Z")
I like Elio and found it plenty original. I’m surprised it bombed that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/7 "2025-07-28T17:26:28Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Are you saying **Coco, Onward, Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Elemental, and Elio** aren’t original? Indeed, in a way, they didn’t seem original. The content and plot was different, but the formula did not seem groundbreaking. It wasn’t like how Wall-E, Finding Nemo (before sequels) and Ratatouille were total original stand-alone films in their own regard, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/8 "2025-07-28T17:33:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > To be fair, when I went to see the latest reboot of the _Fantastic Four_, the trailers were for the new version of _The Running Man_ and the latest sequels for _Now You See It_, _Avatar_, _Wicked_, and a couple of others I can’t even remember. I don’t think there was an “original” film in the bunch. And the Odyssey, which we’ve been milking for literally thousands of years. New Pixar movies used to be events on the level of new Star Wars movies, now they are an afterthought. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/9 "2025-07-28T17:34:46Z")
I guess I don’t understand this. I’ve seen, and enjoyed, both “Soul” and “Turning Red”, and they seem utterly different to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/10 "2025-07-28T17:42:33Z")
Wait, Toy Story 5? 4 was bad enough already. Add it to the list of Movie Series that End When they Get Two Bad Ones, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/11 "2025-07-28T17:46:10Z")
Yup. > **[Toy Story 5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_Story_5)** > > Toy Story 5 is an upcoming American animated comedy film produced by Pixar Animation Studios for Walt Disney Pictures. It is being written and directed by Andrew Stanton, and produced by Jessica Choi. The sequel to Toy Story 4 (2019), it is the fifth installment in Pixar's Toy Story film series. Tom Hanks, Tim Allen, and Joan Cusack are set to reprise their respective roles of Woody, Buzz Lightyear, and Jessie from the first four films, with Anna Faris, Ernie Hudson, and Conan O'Brien joinin... A lot of Pixar fans complained about even Toy Story 4, because Toy Story 3 had felt like it wrapped up the franchise with a perfect ending for closure. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/12 "2025-07-28T17:49:53Z")
Yeah, 3 was bold enough to go where it inevitably had to, and did it well. 4, I would have rated as “cute, but unnecessary”, right up until the end, at which point it shifted all the way to “terrible”, with contradicting previous works and letting the villain win. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/13 "2025-07-28T18:05:16Z")
I have seen some but not all of Pixar’s movies from the last 15 years. Are they not as strong as their first 15 years? Sure. But IMHO even in their prime their movies, while great, were pretty formulaic. It doesn’t surprise me that, with a vast ocean of options, audiences might be unenthused about another feel-good commodity. Looking at budget vs. box office (which I assume is not the only revenue that counts when considering profitability) on the wikipedia entries for Pixar movies in the last 5 years, this movie is a low performer, but not an extreme outlier. Is this unique to Pixar, or is it just an indicator of a changed media consumption and production landscape (due to the pandemic and other factors)? How coherent is media culture for kids these days? Are grade- and middle-schoolers getting amped up to see the latest upcoming movie? Are they missing out on inclusion with their social group if they don’t? I have a sense that what matters culturally these days to kids are the fast-moving micro trends on social media, and not this year’s Pixar film. And if the kids don’t really care that much, and I’m a parent, I might be inclined to go with the “classics” I enjoyed when I was young and do a movie night at home. Not only is Elio bland and unoriginal (taking the OPs word for the sake of argument), but it’s got to compete for interest against a deep bench of their own and others’ movies that are out there for the watching. And, I don’t think this is just a Pixar problem- this is a common observation across media (and yes, there is also originality and freshness out there to be had). ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/14 "2025-07-28T19:15:43Z")
I’d like to see anyone come up with 20 block-buster movie ideas in a row. When Pixar started, they had fresh ideas and technical capabilities no other studio had, not even Disney. Unfortunately, the public started to lose interest in their stories and their box office suffered. Will they ever be as original as they were in 1995? Not a chance, and I wouldn’t expect any studio to to have the kind of success they had for 20 years or more. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/15 "2025-07-28T19:22:51Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Not only is Elio bland and unoriginal (taking the OPs word for the sake of argument), That’s what the reviews tend to say, too. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/16 "2025-07-28T20:17:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Indeed, in a way, they didn’t seem original. The content and plot was different, but the formula did not seem groundbreaking. What does this even mean? You seem to wanting to say something, but you aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/17 "2025-07-28T20:21:27Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Are you saying **Coco, Onward, Soul, Luca, Turning Red, Elemental, and Elio** aren’t original? I wouldn’t say not original, I would just say not particularly good, except Coco, which was excellent ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/18 "2025-07-28T20:22:49Z")
I dunno, it seems unlikely to me that we just happened to be alive during the couple of bright decades when it was briefly possible for humans to write engaging stories that seemed new. I think it could still be done - it’s just _not being done so much_, because the objective is to make money and cranking out sequels and remakes works OK for that. ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/19 "2025-07-28T20:26:59Z")
You could argue that it started with the first _Cars_ in 2006, which was just ‘ok’; certainly nowhere near their usual standard at the time. But that was really just a blip, with _Ratatouille_ the following year and _Wall:E_ the year after. I’ve missed a few of their recent films and I would never have said that in the 90s or 00s. They were more or less unmissable back then. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431/20 "2025-07-28T20:29:54Z")
So, how was Inside Out 2? My students all insist it was excellent, but then, teenagers don’t always have the best taste. (there was also apparently an Inside Out spinoff about dreams, but I don’t have high expectations for that one.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-slow-downfall-of-pixar/1021431.md?page=2)