# The smug English **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 5, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399 "2014-12-05T12:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/121 "2014-12-05T23:23:26Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The best way to deal with the insufferable smug English is by invade, rape and pillage. Talking from experience here. And if they’re really insufferable smug you should also burn down and loot some of their monesteries. Not to tell you how to run your own business, but wouldn’t it be better to loot the monasteries _before_ you burn them? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/122 "2014-12-05T23:29:33Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I agree us Brits can be smug when it comes to America and American culture. Indeed all Europeans can. I blame it mostly on political correctness. There was a time when we could be condescending, smug and downright nasty to Germans, Italians, Spaniards, the French(especially the French) and a whole variety of colourful ethnics. Nowadays we are only allowed to pick on the Americans. This means all our built up hatred of foreigners is almost exclusively directed at Americans. It’s all a rather sad state of affairs a pro American Brit myself. > > Note; we have recently had a rise in support for UKIP. I welcome the day when we can once again proudly and with dignity call the French, frogs! Didn’t you have some clever rhyme about them fighting with their feet and fucking with their faces? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/123 "2014-12-05T23:59:34Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Not to tell you how to run your own business, but wouldn’t it be better to loot the monasteries _before_ you burn them? Rape, then pillage, _then_ burn. Getting them out of order really mucks things up. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/124 "2014-12-06T00:12:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > _coughirishfamineindianempireboerwarbloodysundayolivercromwelletc_ > . Those were all glory days indeed; apart from the Irish famine and bloody Sunday. Though the Irish famine was a natural disaster so we kinda get a pass on that. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/125 "2014-12-06T00:14:35Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Didn’t you have some clever rhyme about them fighting with their feet and fucking with their faces? Im not sure. If we don’t have such a rhyme then we bloody well should have one! ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/126 "2014-12-06T00:20:31Z")
The two people in the OP - they’re American, aren’t they? They live here, work here, ect (if not, must be a hell of a commute). So, are they just complaining about the state of health care and gun culture, or are they separating themselves from their fellow countrymen here? If they’re specifying “American healthcare is terrible” as opposed to “_Our_ healthcare is terrible”, then they’re setting themselves up for a shaky cultural assimilation. They’re practically waving a “we don’t belong here, and don’t like you!” banner, in which case, I would just ignore them and feel bad for them. I would find that experience very lonely. As for UK dopers and the lot, well, it’s the Internet. We’re here to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/127 "2014-12-06T00:33:57Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > A substantial, organized, and well-funded portion of the populace here actively resists the type of legislation you want. There you have it; the primary criteria for being right, under the American paradigm, is being well-funded. If I recall correctly a little while ago there was substantial, organized, and well-funded bloc in the south of the US who actively resisted that type of legislation (that egalitarian, humanitarian, secular, democratic codswallop that only librulls and furriners seem to be interested in). Are you saying they were right, except for the fact that those north of Mason-Dixon were even better funded? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/128 "2014-12-06T00:41:53Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Im not sure. If we don’t have such a rhyme then we bloody well should have one! _Oh! the French they are a funny race, Parlay-voo? The French they are a funny race, Parlay-voo? The French they are a funny race, They fight with their feet And fuck with their face— Hinky-dinky parlay-voo?!_ American, and you’re welcome. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/129 "2014-12-06T00:44:00Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Im not sure. If we don’t have such a rhyme then we bloody well should have one! "The French; they are a funny race, they fight with their feet, and fuck with their face! " This is the one I was thinking of. I found it after a little searching, but none of the sites I checked had anything but the rhyme itself, no history or attribution. Still, it _seems_ like something a proper foreigner hating Brit might pen. It’s been around a while and we didn’t really start hating on the Froggies here until recently. Plus, our insults tend more towards accusing them (wrongly) of cowardice. I see Silenus, my good twin, ninjaed me and did a better job into the bargain. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/130 "2014-12-06T00:54:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > _Oh! the French they are a funny race, > Parlay-voo? > The French they are a funny race, > Parlay-voo? > The French they are a funny race, > They fight with their feet > And fuck with their face— > Hinky-dinky parlay-voo?!_ > > American, and you’re welcome. 😛 I’m a fan of smutty limericks and songs but I’ve never heard that one before, Is that an English one? I just asked my wife and she’s never heard it either. Anyway, I don’t think we go to the extent of making up insulting songs about them, that’s quite a chore. A xenophobic joke back and forth now and again is sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/131 "2014-12-06T01:05:09Z")
It’s parody lyrics to “[Mademoiselle From Armentieres](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mademoiselle_from_Armenti%C3%A8res),” a rather well-known song from World War One. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/132 "2014-12-06T01:09:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > How about “Britannia Rules the Waves”? Or “The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire?” At the time they were penned they were statements of fact and the writers of the time were not the type to be shy about it. > [@](#): > > _coughirishfamineindianempireboerwarbloodysundayolivercromwelletc_ shit yeah! and far worse. That’s barely the tip of the iceberg (which we also invented). The greatness and tyranny of the dominant power is dependant on their reach and technology. We could, so we did. Had it been any other superpower filling that role it would have panned out much the same. Great and dreadful deeds were done in that period, by all countries and everywhere. They were different times with different rules and things can’t be undone. I confess I look at it all with historical interest but no emotional connection. They weren’t me and I’m not them. Similarly I bear no German an ounce of ill-will for the past. Why would I? I do concern myself with how the UK behaves now of course and act and vote accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/133 "2014-12-06T01:10:43Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It’s parody lyrics to “[Mademoiselle From Armentieres](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mademoiselle_from_Armenti%C3%A8res),” a rather well-known song from World War One. I know the tune but the lyrics ring no bells. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/134 "2014-12-06T01:17:14Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Though the Irish famine was a natural disaster so we kinda get a pass on that. If it was just the potatoes that were affected, at the end of the day, you will pay the price if you’re a fussy eater. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/135 "2014-12-06T01:17:48Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > There you have it; the primary criteria for being right, under the American paradigm, is being well-funded. > > If I recall correctly a little while ago there was substantial, organized, and well-funded bloc in the south of the US who actively resisted that type of legislation (that egalitarian, humanitarian, secular, democratic codswallop that only librulls and furriners seem to be interested in). Are you saying they were right, except for the fact that those north of Mason-Dixon were even better funded? My goodness, that is such a clumsy, poorly thought out response to no point I actually made that I have to wonder if you’ve been into the cooking sherry. As a life-long Democrat who voted Obama twice (and for every Democrat before him ), I am especially struck by all that blather about “libruls” Are you one of those pinheads who insists on force fitting everybody into some kind of retarded left-right political dichotomy? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/136 "2014-12-06T01:18:15Z")
It might just be an American thing. Sounds like the sort of lyrics a doughboy would come up with after his first encounter with the “French disease.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/137 "2014-12-06T01:58:13Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Oh, and stand up straight and address me as “sir” when speaking to an Englishman you colonial commoner you! Reinforcing one of the pillars of early gun culture in the US… you need guns to shoot Brits (and other European mercenaries under their employ) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/138 "2014-12-06T04:08:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Neapolitan pizza is a tall glass of “Nope” for this pizza eater. The chocolate and vanilla stripes I can just manage to choke back, but that strawberry part just isn’t going anywhere. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I was being serious, and I note you have yet to learn any manners. > > We were killing them and nicking their stuff. We were utter shits in a lot of ways, don’t think anyone would ever claim otherwise. We did it with style though…and cricket. > [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m being serious when I tell you this: You’re the least interesting person in the thread and I find interacting with you not to be worth my time. Have a good day. Hurray! Now **kaylasdad99** ’s the popular one! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/139 "2014-12-06T04:33:57Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The best way to deal with the insufferable smug English is by invade, rape and pillage. Talking from experience here. And if they’re really insufferable smug you should also burn down and loot some of their monesteries. Whatever happened to the Vikings? They all seem to be accountants and programmers now. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That’s barely the tip of the iceberg (which we also invented). I think you should talk to **Rune** about that one. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399/140 "2014-12-06T06:27:27Z")
I think one of the problems, amply demonstrated in threads like this, is that too many people, as individuals, tie self and nation too closely together. Unreflective nationalism is a pretty destructive sentiment, for the most part, and often leads to an excessive willingness to criticize other nations while ignoring the faults of one’s own. That’s why i prefer to reserve my nationalism for areas where it doesn’t really matter, like rugby and cricket. I’ve lived in for extended periods in four of the world’s most prominent English-speaking Western democracies: Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States of America. There’s plenty to like, and to dislike, about each of these places. All have their share of good people, and their share of assholes; all have dumb policies and smart policies, and which are which depend on your own political point of view. All have historical periods that they can be proud of, and historical periods that should make the most hardened patriot blush with shame. I’m not sure if it’s because i’ve lived in all these places, or because of some personal quirk of my constitution, but i don’t feel any real sense of nationalism. I was born in Canada to an English mother, and then raised in Australia. I still consider myself an Australian, and i still talk like one, despite having lived in the US for over a decade, but i know more about American history and culture than about Australia. I feel no particular loyalty to any nation, and i certainly don’t my invest my own sense of self-worth in what someone else might say about them. Criticize any of the four countries where i’ve lived, and if i agree with the specific criticism, i’ll tell you so, and if i don’t, i’ll argue with you. If i believe that your criticism rests on a misconception of, or ignorance about, the society you’re discussing, i’ll tell you that too. I’ve changed my position on some political issues since coming to the United States, while other of my opinions have not really changed at all. What i won’t do is bristle and whine at you that you have no right to criticize because you’re not Australian/Canadian/British/American. That sort of defensive reaction silly and pointless. At the same time, people who offer criticism should base it on more than simplistic observations and first impressions. I have found, among some of my Commonwealth friends and acquaintances, a tendency to make sweeping generalizations about the United States, based on a fairly limited knowledge of the politics and culture of the country. They hear the big stories that make the international news, and make assumptions about all Americans based on those stories. Some Americans do the same thing about other countries. It can get a little tiresome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-smug-english/706399.md?page=8)