# The socioeconomics of breastfeeding **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567 "2011-09-25T16:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/101 "2011-09-27T16:08:48Z")
It’s kind of like something that came up for someone I know in real life. She’s the “naturalistic” type. When she became pregnant, she was adamant that she’d have a natural birth (no epidural) and that she wouldn’t deliver until the baby knocked on the door. No induction. Because she’d heard on NPR how bad this can be for the baby, if done too early. I’d heard the exact same story. And if I had been pregnant, I woulda be adamant about that too (especially since I was born premature, low-birth, with complications). Well lo and behold, she’s a week past due. And guess what? She induces! Just like she said she would never do. I’m sure she felt some guilt and shame for taking the easy route, but just the same, convenience overrode science when the discomfort became unbearable. She plans on being a SAHM forever. I’m sure this will change eventually. As are a lot of things she plans on doing/never doing. I don’t have experience with poor mothers. I do have familiarity with the mindset that comes with not having the luxury of time and money, though. It _is_ a luxury to have ideological, “planned” parenting. All mothers want what’s best for their babies, but when it comes right down to it, sometimes time and energy win over “best”. Hell, I’d say most of the time it does. And most of the time IT DOES NOT MATTER. That is what kills people to hear. I know a man who’s broken his back making a good life for his teenage boys. Moved them out to suburbs that he hates, just so that they could attend the best schools. Disciplines them with calm, reasonable lectures. And his sons? Probably nice kids, but academic flunkies. Driftless and undisciplined. Neither interested in college or moving out of the house or doing anything besides staying up late and getting girls. The guy is worried to pieces about it, but is also resentful that things have worked out this way after all that effort he put into it. I’m glad I’m not him. But there’s a part of me that’s thinking, "Wonder what would have happened if you hadn’t spent so much of your time trying to make money to give them all the “best” and instead made do with what you could afford, trading off the “best” for “good enough for everyone involved.” Formula isn’t the best. Breast milk is the “best”. But if the “best” means just a couple of IQ points on average (even educated people think in terms of averages, not ranges or standard deviations as they probably should) and just a few less sick days, then it may not be worth the expense to some people. Just like, I could buy $5.99 a gallon of milk from Whole Foods in hopes that it will keep me safer than the $3.99 stuff I can get from Krogers. But I’m still living in a polluted environment, consuming synthetic hormones everywhere else. Is that glass of the “healthiest cow milk evah” really worth driving all the way to WF every weekend and paying more for it, given the other variables I cannot control? I’m really not thinking so. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/102 "2011-09-27T19:57:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I understand how frustrating and exasperating a newborn can be (my son’s about 3 days shy of 2 months old), but possessed, demonic, evil or cursed? > > People seriously believe this stuff? In the twenty-first century? Wow. Fighting ignorance indeed. I’m surprised that you’re surprised. When they interview mothers who have both killed or merely contemplated murdering their newborns while suffering postpartum psychosis, the common explanations are either: a. [baby is evil](http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=active&biw=960&bih=505&q=%22postpartum+psychosis%22+baby+evil&oq=%22postpartum+psychosis%22+baby+evil&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=25904l27266l1l28420l2l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=9887c8b04aa8e1f) b. God told them to kill baby to save its soul. Mentally ill people often mix religious notions into their delusions, which is why “being” Jesus is a popular delusion as well. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/103 "2011-09-28T00:44:13Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Upper middle-class white women breastfeed partly because it’s better for the baby, but they breastfeed _mostly_ because it’s their cultural norm. It’s expected of them, and people look askance at them if they don’t. > > Poor people bottlefeed because that’s _their_ cultural norm. > > You’re assigning both credit and blame wildly disproportionately to individuals of either group. Yes. And marketing breastfeeding (with a focus on baby benefits) to a middle class and above mostly White demographic in a variety of media aimed at them has been modestly successful at increasing breastfeeding rates. So the question is how to best market the product to lower SES groups? They are not necessarily reading the same Expectant Mothers magazines. What media and what message will sell best? Again, the impact of the father’s perceived preference also needs to be accounted for. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > It really isn’t THAT superior. I have one breastfed and one who was adopted. And I spent a lot of time looking at this data. > > You do get antibodies early which are important. But those antibodies will also build up over time if you don’t breastfeed and the protection can be imitated by reducing the babies exposure. Babies who are bottlefed tend to get more colds, but that isn’t the end of the world (unless the cold is serious like RSV). > > There is a slight decrease in some diseases - the diseases I’ve seen are rare to start with. > > A very small difference in IQ, but the co-variants in that study were not (IMHO) well teased out and the difference was something like 2 IQ points. Choice in feeding as an infant is not going to be the thing that condemns one child to remedial ed while the other goes to med school. > > There is a reduction in obesity - again, I’m not sure if the co variants were well accounted for. > > There is a HUGE impact in breast over bottle where the quality of water used for mixing formula is questionable. But that isn’t a problem for most people in the United States, even the poor here have pretty good access to clean water. Do NOT bottlefeed - especially powdered formula - if you do not have access to clean water. I would agree with your basic thesis here, even if I believe the data is slightly stronger than you make it out. Breastfeeding is a benefit … and a best buy by far … but in our society the differences are not HUGE. To flesh out just one of your points, the obesity rates issue. Yes, [studies have controlled for potential confounders](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/115/5/1367.short): > [@](#): > > In 6 studies that adjusted for all 3 major potential confounding factors (parental obesity, maternal smoking, and social class), the inverse association was reduced markedly (from an odds ratio of 0.86 to 0.93) but not abolished. The effect is generally believed to be real, but when confounders are controlled for, not huge. The data is actually better for the effect of breastfeeding on _maternal_ [weight loss](http://www.ajcn.org/content/58/2/162.short) and [long term health measures](http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/59/2/495.abstract). ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/104 "2011-09-28T00:56:14Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I understand how frustrating and exasperating a newborn can be (my son’s about 3 days shy of 2 months old), but possessed, demonic, evil or cursed? > > People seriously believe this stuff? In the twenty-first century? Wow. Fighting ignorance indeed. I’m guessing your son doesn’t scream and scream and scream and scream and scream and _scream_ for no readily apparent reason. You honestly don’t know how you’d think about a baby who was clean, dry, and presumably fed because it nurses all the damn time but still won’t stop screaming and screaming and screaming and screaming and _screaming_. And that’s what often happens with babies who are being breastfed and it’s not going well because of poor latch or poor supply. The baby is _hungry_, all the time, and it makes that fact known the only way it can. Only if everyone around makes breastfeeding seem like the easiest most obvious thing ever that nobody ever has trouble with, you might not realize what’s going on. You just know there’s something deeply, fundamentally _wrong_ with this baby because it’s not acting or reacting like any baby you’ve ever seen. If you’re deeply religious and haven’t had more than an hour or two of sleep in weeks because of the constant screaming…yeah, I can see how someone’s mind might go there. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/105 "2011-09-28T04:37:47Z")
FWIW WIC does cover breast pumps and at least in Illinois lactation consults are a covered benefit. If a family pays for formula themselves the cost of formula is roughly $2000 for that first year. Figure maybe a third of that for some formula for someone who is going to breastfeed exclusively at first and then do both when they go back to work. Oh, add in some for rental pump, what the hell. Still, put that thousand in a 529 college fund right away and you got some good headway going. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/106 "2011-09-28T12:38:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I would agree with your basic thesis here, even if I believe the data is slightly stronger than you make it out. Breastfeeding is a benefit … and a best buy by far … but in our society the differences are not HUGE. And there are a lot of things you can do with your kids that make a bigger difference than breastfeeding - although not while they are infants (but you can begin modeling it then). Turn off the TV. Eat well. Exercise. Read. Pay attention in their lives. Provide a stable environment. Of course, those things are often difficult at lower socioeconomic levels as well. (And yes, breastfeeding was great for MY weight. I’m thinking about creating the “inducing lactation diet plan.” No exercise, eat what you want, just take an half an hour four to six times a day to pump) ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/107 "2011-09-28T13:16:02Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I’m guessing your son doesn’t scream and scream and scream and scream and scream and _scream_ for no readily apparent reason. You honestly don’t know how you’d think about a baby who was clean, dry, and presumably fed because it nurses all the damn time but still won’t stop screaming and screaming and screaming and screaming and _screaming_. And that’s what often happens with babies who are being breastfed and it’s not going well because of poor latch or poor supply. The baby is _hungry_, all the time, and it makes that fact known the only way it can. > > Only if everyone around makes breastfeeding seem like the easiest most obvious thing ever that nobody ever has trouble with, you might not realize what’s going on. You just know there’s something deeply, fundamentally _wrong_ with this baby because it’s not acting or reacting like any baby you’ve ever seen. If you’re deeply religious and haven’t had more than an hour or two of sleep in weeks because of the constant screaming…yeah, I can see how someone’s mind might go there. Thanks to the darn Twilight books and movies, I have people asking me if it’s possible their baby will be an “evil” vampire. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/108 "2011-09-28T15:19:14Z")
I’m a little confused about why infant feeding discussions always assume that it’s always breast or bottle, and never a combination of the two. Is it that difficult or rare to manage to do some of each? I understand that I was very lucky in the nursing department (babies got the hang of it pretty much immediately, never had any pain, no supply issues, etc.), but it was not at all difficult for me to send the kids to daycare with a bottle of formula while continuing to nurse in the mornings and evenings. Is that not a reasonable solution for people who find it difficult to pump in the workplace? For what it’s worth, I decided to try breastfeeding almost exclusively for the reasons **DianaG** mentions, and before #1 was born I thought I’d switch to formula after a couple of months. As it turned out, I really liked everything about it. It was easy and cheap, I lost crazy amounts of weight, I never had to travel with bottles, and I liked the snuggliness of it. I ended up nursing both kids for more than a year. You couldn’t pay me to be pregnant again, but I’d love to breastfeed another baby. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/109 "2011-09-28T16:47:04Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I’m guessing your son doesn’t scream and scream and scream and scream and scream and _scream_ for no readily apparent reason. You honestly don’t know how you’d think about a baby who was clean, dry, and presumably fed because it nurses all the damn time but still won’t stop screaming and screaming and screaming and screaming and _screaming_. And that’s what often happens with babies who are being breastfed and it’s not going well because of poor latch or poor supply. The baby is _hungry_, all the time, and it makes that fact known the only way it can. Generally no… when the kid was starting to go down that path (he had a hard time getting good latches), my wife ended up pumping and using bottles, because that was a lot simpler, all things considered, than trying to grind it out using the boobs. He still gets whatever benefits there are from breast milk, but we get a lot more flexibility this way. Even then, I wouldn’t have assumed the kid was evil, or cursed. I did my homework and asked around, and so did my wife, so we were aware that colicky babies do that, and hoped ours wouldn’t be that way. At no point would we have thought anything so silly as “baby is evil”. That’s up there with hoodoos, hexes and the “evil eye” as far as superstitious nonsense goes. (good news: kid has started sleeping 6 hours at a nighttime stretch! Yay!) ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/110 "2011-09-28T17:00:31Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Generally no… when the kid was starting to go down that path (he had a hard time getting good latches), my wife ended up pumping and using bottles, because that was a lot simpler, all things considered, than trying to grind it out using the boobs. He still gets whatever benefits there are from breast milk, but we get a lot more flexibility this way. > > Even then, I wouldn’t have assumed the kid was evil, or cursed. I did my homework and asked around, and so did my wife, so we were aware that colicky babies do that, and hoped ours wouldn’t be that way. At no point would we have thought anything so silly as “baby is evil”. That’s up there with hoodoos, hexes and the “evil eye” as far as superstitious nonsense goes. > > (good news: kid has started sleeping 6 hours at a nighttime stretch! Yay!) Ah, but I bet you can read a newspaper and went to high school, probably even graduated. Usually when I get clients that think their or their relatives’s baby is cursed, evil or especially the vampire/undead spirit thing, they are referrals from the local folk healers. They tell them, “Yes, there is something wrong here, but I know a Gypsy whose conquered thousands of demons. I’m bringing her in on this.” I get the woman to a social worker that we can trust won’t try to take the baby away and get her set up with W.I.C. and the various private charity programs that can help with the bills and reduce the exhaustion. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/111 "2011-09-28T19:12:17Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > I’m a little confused about why infant feeding discussions always assume that it’s always breast or bottle, and never a combination of the two. Is it that difficult or rare to manage to do some of each? It is difficult, actually, because milk production is supply and demand. Every time the baby isn’t put to the breast when the breasts are full signals the body “you’re making too much milk, ease up.” You have to time the feeding of formula very carefully to not end up in a situation where you’re producing less and less milk and using more and more formula. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/112 "2011-09-28T20:30:27Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > It is difficult, actually, because milk production is supply and demand. Every time the baby isn’t put to the breast when the breasts are full signals the body “you’re making too much milk, ease up.” You have to time the feeding of formula very carefully to not end up in a situation where you’re producing less and less milk and using more and more formula. Nah. Not so “very carefully.” So long as the breastfeedings are at more or less consistent times the breasts will be ready to feed those times of the day, and not engorged other times of the day. Once the supply is established it is pretty easy to establish a pattern of both, if that is what the Mom wants to do, so long as the pattern is consistent. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/113 "2011-09-28T22:07:02Z")
TBH, I’ve never completely understood this myself. I think, though, that for a small minority of women I knew when my daughter was little and I ran a mother and toddler group, not breastfeeding was kind sticking it to the system. They were also more likely to smoke, which (rightly or wrongly) they thought meant their breastmilk wasn’t actually as good. However, a lot of them did try to breastfeed and several breastfed for a long time, despite statistics at the time; perhaps the women who bother go to go regularly to mother and toddler groups aren’t representative. This was in England and we did get milk tokens for formula (available for women on income support or if they’re on a very low income). When I asked at the baby clinic, I was told that I could buy normal milk with them instead, but 13 years ago this was still so uncommon that I had to go to one specific supermarket because they were the only one that actually understood the rules. It’s changed since then. > [@Lumpy](#): > > The poor don’t sew their own clothing, bake their own bread, etc. even though you would think it made sense for un/under-employed people to substitute the time they have for the money they don’t. It’s astonishing how many people, even poor people, even forego _cooking_ when they can get by on takeout, ready-to-eat, and prepackaged food. For some reason most people would rather earn money at a job and then spend the money on not having to do any other work. Formula rather than breastfeeding fits this pattern. I don’t think those are good examples. Hemming your own clothing can be cost-effective, but these days making your own isn’t. Same for baking your own bread. > [@Ludy](#): > > Where I live (Alberta) has free public health nurses that are trained in lactation consulting. A day or two after every new mom comes home from the hospital they get a visit from a nurse. In addition to a general check up for mom and baby, she then helps if there are any feeding issues. On top of that there is a free 24 hour number to call if there are any health concerns with the new baby. At any time a new mom can call that number and talk to a registered nurse. With my second child I was having problems at first. My breasts were hugely engorged, my nipples were bleeding, and the baby couldn’t latch properly. I called the number, they gave me some tips over the phone, and gave me a number to call if the problems persisted. All of this is at no cost. > > There are options besides just give it up. > > **Now there is a middle ground here. If a mother really needs a night off and can’t pump, than a night of formula wont hurt. There is no rule saying that one you stop there is no going back. She can take that weekend, gather her thoughts, and then start back. No harm no foul. Again, she needs suport and help.** It’s not a ‘rule,’ but if she’s been breastfeeding 5 times a day, then going without breastfeeding for a day will probably hurt her, and might lead to mastitis. She would need to pump milk even if she weren’t planning on taking it back to her baby. Often, actually, if you do stop, there _is_ no going back. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > I’m lazy and wanted to do as little work as possible, so I bottle-fed. > > Uh, no. I bottle-fed for a variety of reasons, but laziness wasn’t one of them. I also paid for my own formula, not that it really matters. > > The breastfeeding thing seems to be a ‘trend’ (yes, I know that sounds counter-intuitive) as most of us can attest to watching our brothers and sisters being bottle fed growing up. But is it just me or does La Leche target the middle to upper class crowd? > > Breastfeeding on a working schedule _is_ hard. I don’t think it’s fair to be judgy to those who choose to bottle-feed. > > But…there was a student of ours last year who, at 17, gave birth. \ But the cool thing was that she left class every day to go pump breast milk. She what determined to breastfeed her baby. God bless her. La Leche League are _definitely_ mostly middle-class. Hell, even the name is a bit pretentious. > [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I’m guessing your son doesn’t scream and scream and scream and scream and scream and _scream_ for no readily apparent reason. You honestly don’t know how you’d think about a baby who was clean, dry, and presumably fed because it nurses all the damn time but still won’t stop screaming and screaming and screaming and screaming and _screaming_. And that’s what often happens with babies who are being breastfed and it’s not going well because of poor latch or poor supply. The baby is _hungry_, all the time, and it makes that fact known the only way it can. > > Only if everyone around makes breastfeeding seem like the easiest most obvious thing ever that nobody ever has trouble with, you might not realize what’s going on. You just know there’s something deeply, fundamentally _wrong_ with this baby because it’s not acting or reacting like any baby you’ve ever seen. If you’re deeply religious and haven’t had more than an hour or two of sleep in weeks because of the constant screaming…yeah, I can see how someone’s mind might go there. That doesn’t necessarily lead to accusations of demonic possession, though. One of my stepsisters had a baby that was always crying and crying and crying, wouldn’t feed, wouldn’t latch on. I don’t think my step-sister was going along the lines of demonic possession, not seriously, but I can understand how it could _feel_like the baby was possessed. Turned out the baby had whooping cough, which is very unusual in four-week-olds but does happen. Stopping breastfeeding and sending the mother away would have very much not helped. > [@BetsQ](#): > > I’m a little confused about why infant feeding discussions always assume that it’s always breast or bottle, and never a combination of the two. Is it that difficult or rare to manage to do some of each? I understand that I was very lucky in the nursing department (babies got the hang of it pretty much immediately, never had any pain, no supply issues, etc.), but it was not at all difficult for me to send the kids to daycare with a bottle of formula while continuing to nurse in the mornings and evenings. Is that not a reasonable solution for people who find it difficult to pump in the workplace? > > For what it’s worth, I decided to try breastfeeding almost exclusively for the reasons **DianaG** mentions, and before #1 was born I thought I’d switch to formula after a couple of months. As it turned out, I really liked everything about it. It was easy and cheap, I lost crazy amounts of weight, I never had to travel with bottles, and I liked the snuggliness of it. I ended up nursing both kids for more than a year. You couldn’t pay me to be pregnant again, but I’d love to breastfeed another baby. Well, some studies say that exclusive breastfeeding is better. I’m not going to hunt out cites because my reason for mentioning it is that other people have read such studies and that’s why they’ll try for exclusive breastfeeding. There are practical reasons too, though - if you’re going to put the effort into breastfeeding, and with some babies it is an effort for the first few weeks, why bother investing in bottlefeeding paraphernalia? Same goes vice-versa. Plus, like tumbledown says, engorgement and leaking can be a problem. It depends how old the baby is. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/114 "2011-09-29T00:56:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Nah. Not so “very carefully.” So long as the breastfeedings are at more or less consistent times the breasts will be ready to feed those times of the day, and not engorged other times of the day. > > Once the supply is established it is pretty easy to establish a pattern of both, if that is what the Mom wants to do, so long as the pattern is consistent. Sometimes. I couldn’t do both. I am NOT a great lactater. When the aliens invade, I’m being slaughtered for meat. I have a girlfriend who is definitely a dairy animal though. Bred to breastfeed. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/115 "2011-09-29T18:01:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Nah. Not so “very carefully.” So long as the breastfeedings are at more or less consistent times the breasts will be ready to feed those times of the day, and not engorged other times of the day. That is far from universally true, and advice that is a fast track to supply issues. Once you start moving from feeding on demand to any other kind of scheduling, supply is no longer “established” because it is, by design, going to change. Anyone who wants to combination feed needs to enter into the proposition carefully. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > La Leche League are _definitely_ mostly middle-class. Hell, even the name is a bit pretentious. The name is a reflection of the societal mores of 1956 when the organization was founded. Ladies of that era could not start a series of meetings about breastfeeding and actually use that word in advertising or information. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/116 "2011-09-29T19:18:55Z")
“Universally true” … very little is. But certainly true for the vast majority who try it. Really the body is pretty good at this. Many many Moms of my practice breastfeed and either cannot or do not feel comfortable pumping at work. They feed in the morning before work, when they get home, and at bedtime, other times the kids take a bottle or so and depending on what point they are a at a solids meal or so. Many of these Moms then continue to breastfeed like this well past a year of age. By the way, other benefits for Moms, lower risk of breast cancer later. (See this [cohort study](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/154/1/37.abstract) that showed only 1/3rd of the chance of later breast cancer, and [this study](http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/169/15/1364) that showed the benefit is strongest in those at highest risk.) So yeah yeah yeah … breast milk is good for the kid … the benefits to the Moms, economically, cosmetically, and long term health wise, are where the more huge benefits are. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/117 "2011-09-30T13:53:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > “Universally true” … very little is. But certainly true for the vast majority who try it. Vast majority? Where are you getting this information? I’m a lactation counselor, 1/3 of the way through coursework to an IBCLC and I cannot find anything to back up such a contention, anywhere, in any text from any source. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/118 "2011-09-30T14:40:43Z")
23 years of pediatric practice experience, listening to the Moms who do it. Sorry if your lactation counselor credentials don’t impress me. Some are excellent (we have one excellent one working in our office providing lactation support) but some are feeding fascists who believe, falsely, that exclusive is the only way to go, the only worthwhile goal, and by promoting breastfeeding in that way paradoxically get more Moms to just never try or to quit completely. “Nipple confusion” is another one of those craptastic myths some lactation counselors pass along. “Can’t introduce a bottle or a pacifier as well as the breast because the baby will get confused and give up the breast.” [Just](http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/163/4/378) [not](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9392404?dopt=Abstract) [true](http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/286/3/322.abstract?ijkey=9c85c825d0ee8d1842a8cba340aea5263d8ccf14&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha). (Note the difference between observational studies and true randomized prospective studies. Early bottle and early pacifier use may be _a marker_ for less commitment to, or of difficulty with, breastfeeding, but it is _not_ causative of.) OTOH I would be unsurprised if your texts said it was real. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/119 "2011-09-30T18:15:40Z")
**Tumbleddown** and **Dseid** , Is there anything, in your opinion, that will help increase supply? I am pumping exclusively because my baby never really got the hang of latching. She’s five and a half months and I’m starting to run out of milk. I’ve been trying fenugreek in capsule form. It helped when she was three months old but after a week of swallowing so many capsules I feel as I could open my mouth and spit out maple syrup my supply continues to dwindle. I have a professional quality medela pump that I use several times a day. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/120 "2011-09-30T19:07:01Z")
1. A good lactation consultant may be able to help your baby latch on well yet. If you’ve tried one and it didn’t help it may just be that you didn’t find the right one. 2. The only thing I know that reliably increases supply is increased frequency of feeds. Not just several times a day, but to really get it going back to the old every 2 hours while awake. Or at least as close to that as you can manage and stay sane. Thing is that even the best pumps often don’t do it as well as a baby can … and part of that is because of your reaction to the baby. Letdown is often triggered by your emotional reaction to your baby on your breast and it is hard to get that with the pump going oooomba-oooomba. And without a good letdown the stimulus to produce more is not as complete. It may sound silly, and I do not _know_ that this would work, but if getting your baby to latch is not an option, then you may want to try sniffing something your baby has worn while pumping - smell is major emotional trigger and may help with letdown. 3. Of course the basics - make sure that _you_ are getting enough sleep, eating well in general, etc. Good luck! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567.md?page=7)