# The socioeconomics of breastfeeding **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567 "2011-09-25T16:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/121 "2011-09-30T19:23:20Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > The name is a reflection of the societal mores of 1956 when the organization was founded. Ladies of that era could not start a series of meetings about breastfeeding and actually use that word in advertising or information. That’s very interesting. However, I honestly think it would help a little if they changed their name now. > [@DSeid](#): > > 1. A good lactation consultant may be able to help your baby latch on well yet. If you’ve tried one and it didn’t help it may just be that you didn’t find the right one. > > 2. The only thing I know that reliably increases supply is increased frequency of feeds. Not just several times a day, but to really get it going back to the old every 2 hours while awake. Or at least as close to that as you can manage and stay sane. Thing is that even the best pumps often don’t do it as well as a baby can … and part of that is because of your reaction to the baby. Letdown is often triggered by your emotional reaction to your baby on your breast and it is hard to get that with the pump going oooomba-oooomba. And without a good letdown the stimulus to produce more is not as complete. It may sound silly, and I do not _know_ that this would work, but if getting your baby to latch is not an option, then you may want to try sniffing something your baby has worn while pumping - smell is major emotional trigger and may help with letdown. > > 3. Of course the basics - make sure that _you_ are getting enough sleep, eating well in general, etc. > > Good luck! Good advice. Lavender, this might sound a little obvious, but have you ever tried expressing without a pump? I never had much success with pumps but did really well with manual expression, leaning over a big bowl at first and then, after a week or so, just holding the larger part of the breast pump (the name escapes me) under my nipple while I milked myself. 😃 If I’d relied on breastpumps I’d have given up. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/122 "2011-09-30T19:34:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 1. A good lactation consultant may be able to help your baby latch on well yet. If you’ve tried one and it didn’t help it may just be that you didn’t find the right one. Lactations consultants, and another lactation consultant when the first one didn’t work, are another thing about breastfeeding that is definitely not free. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/123 "2011-09-30T20:47:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 1. A good lactation consultant may be able to help your baby latch on well yet. If you’ve tried one and it didn’t help it may just be that you didn’t find the right one. I tried three of them initially. Two in the hospital and one outside. They were able to get the baby to latch for a while but she would drink and then stop. I got tired of it and started pumping instead. > [@](#): > > 1. The only thing I know that reliably increases supply is increased frequency of feeds. Not just several times a day, but to really get it going back to the old every 2 hours while awake. Or at least as close to that as you can manage and stay sane. Thing is that even the best pumps often don’t do it as well as a baby can … and part of that is because of your reaction to the baby. Letdown is often triggered by your emotional reaction to your baby on your breast and it is hard to get that with the pump going oooomba-oooomba. And without a good letdown the stimulus to produce more is not as complete. It may sound silly, and I do not _know_ that this would work, but if getting your baby to latch is not an option, then you may want to try sniffing something your baby has worn while pumping - smell is major emotional trigger and may help with letdown. > > 2. Of course the basics - make sure that _you_ are getting enough sleep, eating well in general, etc. > > Good luck! The baby has been sleeping through the night since she was eight weeks old. She slept today from about 1:30 am to about 8:30 without a feed. I suspect that’s part of my problem but I really need as much sleep as I can as I work a full time job. I work at home so I’m trying to pump and watch her at the same again. I also suspect that’s another part of the problem. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > That’s very interesting. However, I honestly think it would help a little if they changed their name now. > > Good advice. > > Lavender, this might sound a little obvious, but have you ever tried expressing without a pump? I never had much success with pumps but did really well with manual expression, leaning over a big bowl at first and then, after a week or so, just holding the larger part of the breast pump (the name escapes me) under my nipple while I milked myself. 😃 If I’d relied on breastpumps I’d have given up. I use both the pump and the hand milking. If I can’t get enough with the pump I use my hands. If the pumping isn’t working I try the milking technique. The problem is primarily a drop off in the mornings with volume. As last as last week I was getting 10 ounces first thing in the morning but that’s down to about six if I’m lucky. Oh well. I’ve given her mostly breast milk and she’s 23 weeks. That’s good, right? I’m just afraid that I’ll wake up one day and find I can’t get anything. Right now I’m down to about 20ounces a day with another four or six ounces of formula supplementation and a daily feed of mashed banana, rice cereal or sweet potatoes. She’s just so big – over 20lbs already – that I’m scared she’s not getting enough nutrition. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/124 "2011-09-30T20:56:16Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Lactations consultants, and another lactation consultant when the first one didn’t work, are another thing about breastfeeding that is definitely not free. Oh true that. Not free. Add in the cost of the extra food Moms eat (even while still losing weight) too! Then again lactation consults are often covered by many insurance plans, most Moms get by without them, the cost (if paid out of pocket) is less than a month of the formula, and if the not huge but real protection from infectious diseases saves you just one sick office visit (let alone an antibiotic couse for an ear infection) then it is worth it. (A visit with me costs more than a visit with the lactation consultant.) ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/125 "2011-09-30T21:04:29Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > … > > My youngest daughter is five months old. Not a day goes by when I don’t think about saying to fuck with it on the pumping and just giving up. I’m so glad she’s starting to eat solids. > > Nursing a baby is not always as easy as people like to think it is. Preach it!!! And good on you for keeping up with the pumping as long as you have!! When **Moon Unit** was a preemie and not eating at the breast (and sorry DSeid, but she DID have nipple confusion despite what you said and what the neonatologists said), and I was despairing of her ever learning the trick, I didn’t think I’d be able to keep up the pumping if she didn’t figure things out. For the first 2 weeks she was home, my day and most of my night consisted of “offer breast, feed her a bottle, then pump” followed by an hour’s doze, and then repeat it all over again. Possibly too late at this point, as your baby has learned to drink from a bottle and likely would have no idea what to do with the breast, but did the LCs check to see if she was tongue-tied? If you have another baby at some point and have issues then, it’s worth checking (the membrane under the tongue goes too far forward and interferes; a quick snip and it’s fixed). I was a second-time mother, knew how to tell if feeding was going well, knew all the benefits, and STILL considered giving up and switching to formula. You’re doing better than I would have!!! I wound up working it out, with a technique I’d stumbled across on the internet before she was born. I used one of those “supplemental feeder” bottles, with the tube taped to my fingertip (little finger), stuffed that in her mouth. used my chin to press the bottle a little whenever she sucked… and within 24 hours she was nursing full-time. She just needed to be taught that ‘X’ action resulted in food - something she hadn’t figured out at the breast. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/126 "2011-09-30T22:02:20Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I tried three of them initially. Two in the hospital and one outside. They were able to get the baby to latch for a while but she would drink and then stop. I got tired of it and started pumping instead. We had four lactation consultants try to work with us, and our baby never latched onto my wife, not even for ten seconds. So she had to pump. I just don’t know what else we could have done. (One of the consultants suggested there might be something wrong with the baby’s reflexes, but we never really figured it out.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/127 "2011-10-01T00:24:49Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > … She’s just so big – over 20lbs already – that I’m scared she’s not getting enough nutrition. Um. You do see what’s wrong with this statement, don’t you? That is a very well fed baby. She’s the size of many nine monthers. She is getting enough nutrition! Actually you should be forewarned that some of the … very well rounded … breastfed babies will go between six and nine months hardly gaining any weight (as they become more mobile and get more solids and less breastmilk). That will _not_ be a sign that you are not giving her enough nutrition. It is just normal. No, what you’ve done is not “good” … it is great. It would be wonderful to keep getting some breastmilk in her as the winter infectious disease season approaches, especially given how much she is thriving on it, but honestly driving yourself nuts to make the proportion say 80 vs 60% is not worth it. Let’s be real, the next 3 to 4 months will include her getting mobile, remembering all the cool (dangerous) things behind those close cabinet doors (object permanence, comes with peek a boo , stranger and separation anxiety), and pincer grasp … exciting and fun but dangerous and exhausting times to try to get work done at home with baby. Adding more demands should be done with full consideration of what they cost, not in dollars, but in the quality of the play you get to have with her. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/128 "2011-10-01T00:44:13Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Um. You do see what’s wrong with this statement, don’t you? That is a very well fed baby. She’s the size of many nine monthers. She is getting enough nutrition! Actually you should be forewarned that some of the … very well rounded … breastfed babies will go between six and nine months hardly gaining any weight (as they become more mobile and get more solids and less breastmilk). That will _not_ be a sign that you are not giving her enough nutrition. It is just normal. No, what you’ve done is not “good” … **it is great**. It would be wonderful to keep getting some breastmilk in her as the winter infectious disease season approaches, especially given how much she is thriving on it, but honestly driving yourself nuts to make the proportion say 80 vs 60% is not worth it. Let’s be real, the next 3 to 4 months will include her getting mobile, remembering all the cool (dangerous) things behind those close cabinet doors (object permanence, comes with peek a boo , stranger and separation anxiety), and pincer grasp … exciting and fun but dangerous and exhausting times to try to get work done at home with baby. Adding more demands should be done with full consideration of what they cost, not in dollars, but in the quality of the play you get to have with her. Thank you. The bolded part made me cry. I have tried so hard with the pumping. It is not easy. I felt so bad because I was able to get her sister to nurse for two years even though she also had initial difficulties latching. I’m a lot more sympathetic now than I was back then to the non-breast feeders. My nickname for her is chub-chub because she’s so deliciously fat. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/129 "2011-10-01T17:46:44Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Lavender, this might sound a little obvious, but have you ever tried expressing without a pump? I never had much success with pumps but did really well with manual expression, leaning over a big bowl at first and then, after a week or so, just holding the larger part of the breast pump (the name escapes me) under my nipple while I milked myself. 😃 If I’d relied on breastpumps I’d have given up. Wait, you’re a woman?! Crap, I think I’ve actually said that before to/about you, even. D’oh! (Well, if you’re not a woman, then hats off to you, sir! That’s what I call a dedicated father!) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/130 "2011-10-01T17:51:26Z")
While we’re on the topic of babies being well-fed, is there any link between bottle fed babies and being overweight? I had a chubster of a kid and my mom kept telling me it was because he was bottle-fed. Maybe. But he’s a rail now. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/131 "2011-10-01T21:24:08Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > While we’re on the topic of babies being well-fed, is there any link between bottle fed babies and being overweight? I had a chubster of a kid and my mom kept telling me it was because he was bottle-fed. Maybe. But he’s a rail now. See link in post# 103. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/132 "2011-10-01T22:39:50Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Wait, you’re a woman?! Crap, I think I’ve actually said that before to/about you, even. D’oh! (Well, if you’re not a woman, then hats off to you, sir! That’s what I call a dedicated father!) Heh, yes, I’m a woman. Funnily enough, it’s only been this year that everyone seems to think I’m male. Perhaps I’ve grown some testicles or something and not noticed. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/133 "2011-10-02T03:57:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 23 years of pediatric practice experience, listening to the Moms who do it. > > Sorry if your lactation counselor credentials don’t impress me. Well sorry if it’s mutual. Pediatricians and their office staff give some of the most horrific, sabotaging breastfeeding “advice” imaginable. > [@](#): > > “Nipple confusion” is another one of those craptastic myths some lactation counselors pass along. “Can’t introduce a bottle or a pacifier as well as the breast because the baby will get confused and give up the breast.” [Just](http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/163/4/378) [not](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9392404?dopt=Abstract) [true](http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/286/3/322.abstract?ijkey=9c85c825d0ee8d1842a8cba340aea5263d8ccf14&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha). (Note the difference between observational studies and true randomized prospective studies. Early bottle and early pacifier use may be _a marker_ for less commitment to, or of difficulty with, breastfeeding, but it is _not_ causative of.) OTOH I would be unsurprised if your texts said it was real. Not in the least. What they do say is real is the fact that bottles are much easier for a baby to get milk from than the breast, which causes an issue when a baby can’t figure out why they have to work for the milk all of a sudden when they’re brought to breast again, especially if they’re upset, hungry and crying. And then you can get into a cycle that’s very difficult to get out of. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I have tried so hard with the pumping. It is not easy. It’s not. It’s tiring, it’s taxing, you don’t get those moments of cuddling and bonding because plastic ain’t so cuddly and doesn’t provoke oxytocin release so well. To be willing, to put in those hours, and the fact that you’ve done it for nearly six months and can say: > [@](#): > > My nickname for her is chub-chub because she’s so deliciously fat. Is such a testament to your dedication and your very very hard work and your commitment, seriously, take another minute to stop and feel proud. Hell, take a few hours. Congratulations to you and your chub-chub, seriously. High five. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/134 "2011-10-02T18:23:53Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Heh, yes, I’m a woman. Funnily enough, it’s only been this year that everyone seems to think I’m male. Perhaps I’ve grown some testicles or something and not noticed. Perhaps they’re on the back of your head? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/135 "2011-10-02T20:17:59Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Perhaps they’re on the back of your head? Are you calling me a dickhead? I think that’s banned in this forum! :mad:😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567/136 "2011-10-02T21:09:06Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Are you calling me a dickhead? I think that’s banned in this forum! :mad:😃 That would be, what, a nuthead? A sackhead? Anyway, I was just suggesting one reason you hadn’t noticed your extra testicles. I picture it as like a rooster comb, wobbling away while you walk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-socioeconomics-of-breastfeeding/597567.md?page=6)