It is, however, the exact opposite of what one should do when told “don’t move”.
False. My position is that in both cases the shooting was justified (do note that “justified” != “should have been”) because the specific circumstances gave the officer reason to believe he was in danger.
Castile was never ordered to “put his hands up”.
There is no conflict. He was asked for his license, he responded that he had a weapon, and he was then told not to move. The second instruction supercedes the first.
He didn’t have to be shot. That does not mean that shooting him was not a justifiable act.
You have had considerably longer to ponder that evidence than the fraction of a second that the officer did, and you did not have the possibility of instant death looming over you while you did so.
I’m pretty sure that’s outside of congress’s prevue. Police powers are generally understood to belong to the states.
[QUOTE=http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Police+Power]
The authority conferred upon the states by the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and which the states delegate to their political subdivisions to enact measures to preserve and protect the safety, health, Welfare, and morals of the community.
Police power describes the basic right of governments to make laws and regulations for the benefit of their communities. Under the system of government in the United States, only states have the right to make laws based on their police power. The lawmaking power of the federal government is limited to the specific grants of power found in the Constitution.
Yeah, and that crime was what again? Standing on the corner? Breaking up a fight? Supposedly selling loosies? Glad that guy’s off the streets now. And that improper choke hold was totally worth it and accomplished something a de-escalating conversation or warning could never accomplish.
A police officer is supposed to be trained to properly assess a situation quickly and act accordingly. A civilian, and a black man, is probably a little nervous, not thinking clearly, when a cop pulls him over, especially when a gun is pointed at him. You actually expect this poor guy to perfectly process what he’s being told (possibly yelled) at him in a split second by a cop with a fucking gun pointed at him? Castile was doing what everyone is told to do when they’ve got a legal firearm in their car. Castile probably didn’t think freezing with his hands in the air would get him shot. The cop has the upper hand and the training that shouldn’t lead to Castile being shot multiple times when he never actually showed his gun.
You don’t think a young white guy in the car with a young white woman and a four-year-old girl in the back seat would be given the benefit of the doubt in this exact same situation? And not been shot, like four times?
OK, I think this is where you and I differ. I have the expectation that cops shouldn’t get violent, or kill, even when someone *does *break the law. Speeding? Smoking a doobie behind the garage? Teenagers getting loud at a party? Selling loosies on the corner? You mean you think it’s reasonable for police to get violent with these people just because they’re breaking the law? Do you live in a third world country?
If you think it’s ok to choke a man to death for *allegedly *selling cigarettes on the corner, well, I don’t know what to say to that. I don’t even think it’s ok for police to choke a man who just murdered someone. But that’s just me. I like having laws and rules for the police too.
You know perfectly well the police didn’t get violent with him because he was selling cigarettes on the street. They got violent with him because he began resisting arrest.
I know that in your perfect world the police instead should have tried to plead, cajole, finesse, or gently nudge him toward the police station with a padded robotic vehicle (or even better, apologized for taking up his time and gone on their way), but in the real world people can rightfully expect to be overpowered when they begin resisting arrest.
In your hypothetical situation, I’ve been trained to deal with such a scenario. In reality, I have not. But I’m pretty sure de-escalation techniques don’t involve improper choke holds.
Yes. If he doesn’t, then he ceases to exist for all of eternity. That moment is literally the single most important instant in the entire history of the universe as far as he is concerned.
He didn’t “freeze with his hands in the air”. He moved his hands after being told to freeze. At no point was he told to raise his hands. (BTW; as an experiment, try “putting your hands in the air” while sitting in the driver’s seat of your car.)
I would expect nothing different from the suspect if they were white, and I would expect no different response from the officer. The skin color of the person who you believe is about to un-make you is irrelevant.
Yes. Do you believe resisting arrest is a get-out-of-jail-free-card?
Let’s therefore leave the policing to the people whose understanding of how to deal with a hostile reprobate amounts to more than “Well, he says he doesn’t want to go to jail, so I’d better not make him or else he might get mad at me”.
That’s their number one job? Really? What’s the point in having cops then? We can just use low paid security guards and the military. Security guard to keep the peace, and the military to murder anyone who dares not comply with the security guards since noncompliance is now met with deadly force.
The whole point of police duty is that you cannot always ensure your own safety. That’s they they are paid relatively well, and get to retire with great benefits after a couple decades or so. If the number one goal of a cop is to ensure their own safety above all else, they cannot be effective cops. You cannot walk down dark alleys or chase suspects in a car or by foot if you think your own safety is paramount to the duties you are tasked to do. This is why cops who do their jobs well are heroes. They put others ABOVE themselves on a regular basis.
I personally don’t think that is that much to ask. People risk and lose their lives nearly nine times as often trying to catch fucking fish. I expect that cops should be okay with taking significant risks to their health and safety even if it comes at the hands of bad people. That doesn’t mean they should have to take beatings from the public, or that they shouldn’t have basic self-defense rights, but rather that self-preservation at all costs is antithetical to police work.
But that’s clearly false. Do you really think everyone who arguably resists is hiding something “deadly”?
It’s almost comical. I say violence shouldn’t be Tool #1, I’m told it is Tool #2, and then the authoritarians come in here and prove it.
> Issue Orders
> Resort to Violence.
How about we move Violence out of the top 5 or top 10 responses, eh?
In the hypothetical, since I am trained (but not a cop), I’d smile, laugh, say “yes, you are” and then call for backup. If 3-4 officers don’t convince him that he’s going, he’s got a choice to make, but my response is NOT going to be to take out a nightstick and bash his brains, or shoot him. My job is not to escalate the situation or initiate violence, it is to de-escalate and resolve the situation peacefully if at all possible.
And you know, if we have to surround him and do nothing for a few minutes for it to sink into his head that there really is nothing for it but to come along peacefully, then it’s a few minutes well spent. I’m in no hurry and him refusing my orders doesn’t prick my ego the way it seems to do with some of these guys. He’s coming along, period, and I don’t need to wave my dick around, get belligerent or beat him half to death to make that happen.
You speak of de-escalation techniques, which basically boil down to “pretty please” but if “pretty please” doesn’t work, then what? I can’t jedi mind trick everyone into handcuffs, I wish I could, but that isn’t the real world.
Their job as human beings supercedes their job as civil servants. You cannot compel a person to surrender their fundamental human right to live as a condition of employment.
No, I do not think people resisting arrest can expect to be accidentally killed through the use of choke holds, which, incidentally, were originally intended to provide non-lethal ways of bringing resisting arrestees under control.
Yes and if him being surrounded and letting it “sink in” doesn’t work, then what? How long do we keep this going, 1 hour? 2 hours? Leave and tell him to turn himself in at his earliest convenience? What?