# The Solyndra Scandal:Does It Have the Potential to Hurt Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401 "2011-09-15T16:04:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/201 "2011-10-11T19:50:23Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > You may want to hold off on that: [CNBC: White House Emails Show Deep Tension Over Solyndra](http://www.cnbc.com/id/44761639) > > Perhaps this is just the first to fail. Are you saying that those other ones might eclipse the Solyndra scandal? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/202 "2011-10-11T21:28:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you saying that those other ones might eclipse the Solyndra scandal? You mean like a [$1.2 Billion dollar loan](http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46761) that went to a company 3 weeks AFTER it announced they would build a new facility to make the solar cells … in MEXICO? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/203 "2011-10-11T21:36:11Z")
“According to the Department of Energy (DOE) website, the CVSR project will create 350 construction jobs during the two-year build and 15 permanent jobs—presumably those are the squeegee men for keeping the panels clean.” That would be over 3.4 million dollars per job of which only 15 are permanent. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/204 "2011-10-11T22:45:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean like a [$1.2 Billion dollar loan](http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46761) that went to a company 3 weeks AFTER it announced they would build a new facility to make the solar cells … in MEXICO? Well, that is indeed an alarming flare up! ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/205 "2011-10-12T18:01:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you saying that those other ones might eclipse the Solyndra scandal? No, I am saying that it is incorrect to act like every investment is great and this is only the 1 out of 40 that is performing poorly. We are very early still in this program’s life and there will undoubtedly be other failures. That doesn’t mean any will be or won’t be scandals. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/206 "2011-10-12T20:43:03Z")
Nobody appreciates puns these days… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/207 "2011-10-12T21:41:33Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > No, I am saying that it is incorrect to act like every investment is great and this is only the 1 out of 40 that is performing poorly. We are very early still in this program’s life and there will undoubtedly be other failures. That doesn’t mean any will be or won’t be scandals. The problem is not that the business failed, it’s that they predicted it would fail and then gave them the money despite knowing this. On top of that they set it up so that private investors were first line in the event of bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/208 "2011-10-12T21:48:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The problem is not that the business failed, it’s that they predicted it would fail and then gave them the money despite knowing this. On top of that they set it up so that private investors were first line in the event of bankruptcy. No worries - since the money will go to “job creators” it’s bound to work out well. I keed, I keed… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/209 "2011-10-12T21:57:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No worries - since the money will go to “job creators” it’s bound to work out well. > > I keed, I keed… It’s working in NY and DC. Lots of overtime in the police department because of the protestors. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/210 "2011-10-12T22:40:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s working in NY and DC. Lots of overtime in the police department because of the protestors. So the government _IS_ a “job creator” after all! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/211 "2011-10-13T21:39:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve spent the last 15 years enhancing historical documents so they can be read easier. The idea that it was done with OCR software doesn’t account for the inconsistencies in the document. Some of it was redrawn entirely, some of it was darkened/lightened and some of it was blended. It would have been better to just make a copy of it warts and all instead of trying to make it easier to read. It just screams fraud for no good reason. You have no idea what you’re talking about. None. I don’t know what you do for a living, but I am a graphic designer and you are completely and utterly wrong. The PDF that was released has layers because they scanned it, probably using their preset settings that they use to OCR scan everything that comes into the White House. I don’t know what software they use at the White House, but it is likely similar to the OCR and Optimization used by Acrobat. Again, I’m no physicist, no economist or sharpshooter. But I know the design world and you are completely and without reservation repeating things that are not true here. You need to admit your ignorance and go on. I just downloaded the color birth certificate. Follow along so you can understand this: 1. I flattened the color birth certificate. I turned it into a JPG. It has no layers, but it is in color. Understand? Good. 2. I turned that JPG into a PDF. I opened the PDF in Acrobat. Why did I do this? Because I didn’t have the original that I could scan directly into acrobat. So I took the flat JPG and made a PDF. I then used Acrobat to optimize the image. The laptop I’m on is using CS3. I went to menu item Document –\> Optimize Scanned PDF and I hit Enter on the default settings. 3. Then I opened the PDF (which was made of a flat JPG, remember) in Illustrator. And lookie here: [![](https://i.imgur.com/shSp1.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/shSp1.jpg) You don’t know what you are talking about. Please retract your claim and stop spreading the misinformation that the right has been feeding you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/212 "2011-10-13T23:15:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You have no idea what you’re talking about. None. I don’t know what you do for a living, but I am a graphic designer and you are completely and utterly wrong. > . The document is visually inconsistent throughout. You can clearly see objects modified next to objects that are not modified. Some of it was done by air brushing, some of it was painted pixel by pixel and some of it was done using some kind of blending tool. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/213 "2011-10-13T23:18:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The document is visually inconsistent throughout. You can clearly see objects modified next to objects that are not modified. Some of it was done by air brushing, some of it was painted pixel by pixel and some of it was done using some kind of blending tool. No, as I said you are misinterpreting it because you don’t understand what you are seeing. I managed to produce something very similar by using the default optimization that Acrobat does on a flat JPG (which I did because I don’t have a piece of paper to scan like they did). You’re not right here. I’m sorry if this blows your mind. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/214 "2011-10-13T23:21:37Z")
You will note the ones endlessly harping on Solyndra are the ones who will never vote for a Dem. So will the horrible crisis hurt him? Sure the right wingers who hate him, will not vote for him. What a surprise. The question is whether it will cause likely Obama backers to change their minds. From what these threads say, not likely. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/215 "2011-10-14T00:04:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No, as I said you are misinterpreting it because you don’t understand what you are seeing. I managed to produce something very similar by using the default optimization that Acrobat does on a flat JPG (which I did because I don’t have a piece of paper to scan like they did). > > You’re not right here. I’m sorry if this blows your mind. No, I understand exactly what you’re talking about. To start with they inserted a back ground pattern for no particular reason. There’s no argument there. The layering affect pulled apart shows an inconsistent application of the software. It looks like parts of it were altered through air brushing and other techniques. I’m not arguing the authenticity, I’m just pointing out that they posted something that was obviously altered and the conspiracy theories ensued. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/216 "2011-10-14T00:06:52Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You will note the ones endlessly harping on Solyndra are the ones who will never vote for a Dem. So will the horrible crisis hurt him? Sure the right wingers who hate him, will not vote for him. What a surprise. The question is whether it will cause likely Obama backers to change their minds. From what these threads say, not likely. The Solyndra thing is attractive to people who fall into the same trap that Magiver seems to be falling into, wanting their side to be right so hard that they are willing to believe in outrageous conspiracy theories. As an aside, here is another close up of the file I made, with the same internal hiccoughs that Magiver thinks are the result of airbrushing and pixel by pixel creation: [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://i.imgur.com/UZwGq.jpg) What happens when the file gets optimized is complex. The computer looks at the document, the image that comes in via scanning, and tries to break it up in what it thinks is an intelligent manner. And it puts some stuff as pure bitmap black and white text and some stuff as photographic continuous tone graphics. The reason in that pic above there is a white nimbus around the letters, and where the letters have been moved (the bitmapped pure black stuff) it leaves a white hole, is the computer has no idea what is behind a letter. It doesn’t know that the background of the paper, the green jibba-jabba that Hawaii uses as the security paper continues behind the letters, so when it’s making the file it leaves the area behind the letters blank. If I were designing this graphic, you wouldn’t knock out holes like this. When you slid a graphic element away the background would continue behind it. This is so obviously the result of an automated process it’s upsetting seeing people claiming expertise in my field trying to pass it off as evidence of a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/217 "2011-10-14T00:07:20Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You will note the ones endlessly harping on Solyndra are the ones who will never vote for a Dem. So will the horrible crisis hurt him? Sure the right wingers who hate him, will not vote for him. What a surprise. The question is whether it will cause likely Obama backers to change their minds. From what these threads say, not likely. :rolleyes: I’ve voted for Democrats before. All they have to do is demonstrate fiscal conservancy. It’s a rare ability among Democrats these days but hope springs eternal. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/218 "2011-10-14T00:12:45Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The Solyndra thing is attractive to people who fall into the same trap that Magiver seems to be falling into, wanting their side to be right so hard that they are willing to believe in outrageous conspiracy theories. > . The WH willingly pushes a half billion dollar bad loan of other people’s money (despite being told it would fail) that illegally favors major contributors of Obama and you just hand wave it away. That loan is followed by a 1.2 billion dollar one for a company that builds a factory in Mexico at a cost of over 8 million dollars for each American job created (most of which are temporary). If a bank CEO did this he would be indited for fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/219 "2011-10-14T00:14:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, I understand exactly what you’re talking about. To start with they inserted a back ground pattern for no particular reason. There’s no argument there. The layering affect pulled apart shows an inconsistent application of the software. It looks like parts of it were altered through air brushing and other techniques. There is a white sheet version that is out there, but it’s a different version that the Hawaii people gave as an additional copy. What they did is take a book (his birth info had been bound into a book), lay it on a matte on the copier and copied it on green security paper. They didn’t add in the background. Or at least the administration didn’t. The background was added by the people in Hawaii. It was a pre-printed piece of paper that had the green marks on it and a black and white copy was made on it. From a book. > [@](#): > > I’m not arguing the authenticity, I’m just pointing out that they posted something that was obviously altered and the conspiracy theories ensued. If you aren’t arguing the authenticity, I mistook your purpose. But the document itself wasn’t altered in any direct way. The problem is the administration didn’t hire a skilled graphic designer to do their scanning. It should have been a JPG or at least a flat, rasterized PDF. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401/220 "2011-10-14T00:31:21Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you aren’t arguing the authenticity, I mistook your purpose. But the document itself wasn’t altered in any direct way. The problem is the administration didn’t hire a skilled graphic designer to do their scanning. It should have been a JPG or at least a flat, rasterized PDF. They should have left out the green pattern and just scanned the page of the book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-solyndra-scandal-does-it-have-the-potential-to-hurt-obama/596401.md?page=12)