# The Sopranos 11/10 - Holy $%@#! (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 11, 2002, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249 "2002-11-11T06:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/21 "2002-11-12T03:20:03Z")
Christopher said he knew it wasn’t Paulie because Paulie was in New Paltz all day. I didn’t understand why they didn’t do with Ralphie what they did with Richie Aprile–take him to the butcher shop and use the professional equipment to chop him up. I thought Ralphie hired someone–Tony said his name but I don’t remember it–to set the fire so Ralphie could collect the insurance money to pay for his kid’s medical treatment. Also, it was clear that as Tony was throttling Ralphie, his anger over the horse and Tracee were mixed into one. The eyesight thing is interesting–maybe he’ll have to retire to Providence with all those old freaky guys in the house up there… dinahmoe: good catch! One of my friends pointed out “were you there when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain…” As for Junior–there was an NYC mob guy in the 70s who feigned insanity by wandering the streets in his bathrobe and pajamas… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/22 "2002-11-12T03:24:18Z")
Anybody else catch Tony looking at the picture of the murdered stripper at the end? ---
**Author:** ![dinahmoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8797f3/32.png) [@dinahmoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinahmoe)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/23 "2002-11-12T04:08:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Moto \* > \*\*Anybody else catch Tony looking at the picture of the murdered stripper at the end? \*\* Me, me, I did!! I totally thought that killing of horse=killing of Tracee. Tony can’t stand to see the suffering of innocents. Which brings a whole new level to his psychosis. (really, I am not a Soprano’s freak. I’m just a girl with a sixth grade education, and an enthusiasm for Mafia dynamics!!)\* \*not true. That’s a Brian Fellow reference. I’m really a girl with a Bachelor’s in music who wishes she studied forensics. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/24 "2002-11-12T07:25:51Z")
I liked that Tony finally called Christopher on his drug use. Also, as much of a scumbag as Christopher can be, it sure is nice to have him around when you need to chop up a body 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/25 "2002-11-12T09:03:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dinahmoe \* > \*\*Did anyone catch the “Sympathy for the Devil” references? > > Ralphie to the surgeon: Allow me to introduce myself. > > \*\* [nitpick]He said “Pleased to meet you.” But they work equally well![/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/26 "2002-11-12T09:07:32Z")
In a way, I think Christopher is a little wiser this season. His mouth doesn’t shoot off as much, he doesn’t get into as much trouble (didn’t go to the protest on Columbus Day), and he doesn’t say such moronic things anymore. I know, I know… the drug problem. A lot of people are venerable to that type of problem though, especially when the drugs are available to them, and they have a history of mood problems. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/27 "2002-11-12T14:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > \*\*Paulie was totally right. I mean, it’s really not his fault for repeating what Ralph said; Ralph’s the one who **said** it. \*\* I could _not_ disagree with this anymore if I tried! Yes, Ralphie did say it but what Paulie did (repeating it) was juvenile and dangerous. You don’t air that kind of stuff to another family. It’s just not done. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/28 "2002-11-12T16:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KSO \* > As for Junior–there was an NYC mob guy in the 70s who feigned insanity by wandering the streets in his bathrobe and pajamas… That would be Vicent “The Chin” Gigante. And [he’s still at it](http://www.americanmafia.com/News/2-8-02_Chin_Up_In_Court.html). ---
**Author:** ![AV8R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@AV8R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AV8R)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/29 "2002-11-13T21:26:52Z")
It seemed like an odd place to bury the bag. Their intent was to hide the body (and parts) so that no one can prove that a murder took place, but they buried the bag in the middle of an empty lot. Tony said “kick some leaves over it”, but that just doesn’t seem like enough. I bet that someone curious digs up the bag (or maybe even a dog), and that it becomes common knowledge that Ralphie was murdered. Also, I’m sure that Christopher knows that Tony wacked Ralphie. Tony wasn’t at all convincing when he said that he just walked in and found Ralphie like that. ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/30 "2002-11-13T21:35:55Z")
I’m also certain Christopher knows it was Tony, particularly when Tony tries to tell him Ralphie was still alive when he got to the house. Christopher just wasn’t buying it but wasn’t about to ask any questions. And I don’t think it was the heroin affecting his perception, either. Tony’s between the proverbial devil and the deep blue sea regarding Christopher; he’s come to believe he can only trust blood and therefore Christopher’s the only logical person for Tony to run things through, but Christopher’s becoming such a smack-addled basket-case he’s no longer a good candidate. Is Tony genuinely concerned about Christopher’s well-being, or is he just trying to watch his own ass? ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/31 "2002-11-14T01:30:35Z")
I agree with most of the posters here… by far the best episode of the season. Quite frankly, I was becoming bored with this season… but wow. They came back strong! Christopher definitely knows something isn’t kosher… Tony’s eyes were obviously screwed up, and Christopher got him the Visene out of the medicine cabinet. (By the way, would a person actually be able to see if Raid was sprayed in the eyes without medical attention?) Also, I don’t know if Ralphie started the fire. He said it was no big deal because of the insurance, but he denied starting the fire to Tony. He may have viewed it as a stroke of luck, but that doesn’t mean he did it. And correct me if I’m wrong, but when Christopher was being made, didn’t Tony tell him that “the family” would always be there for him? If true, then Ralphie didn’t really have to worry about the hospital bills. Also, do I remember right that the kid was covered under Ralphie’s ex-wife’s insurance? I heard an interview with Joe Pantoliano on Monday (sorry, can’t remember what show), and he said that David Chase told him that he’d only be around for two seasons. Pantoliano said that he figured he would be able to convince Chase to keep him around longer if he could develop the character. But Chase wasn’t interested… Pantoliano knew he was going to get whacked, but he didn’t want to be. A couple of things about this season surprise me. Dr. Melfi was such an important character for the first 3 seasons, but she’s been off the map this season (not that I miss her. I can’t STAND Lorraine Bracco). Tony’s kids barely register a blip on the radar screen, yet they are still credited at the beginning of the show. One last thing. I was wondering why Tony didn’t approach Carmella about the missing money. He’s got to know she took it… I wouldn’t mind seeing Tony pound the sheet out of Janice. Lord I hate that character! (Best line of the episode. Svetlana to Janis: “You are a boring woman.”) Oh yeah! ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/32 "2002-11-14T02:27:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max \* > **One last thing. I was wondering why Tony didn’t approach Carmella about the missing money. He’s got to know she took it…** He will. They can’t do everything in every episode. \*\* > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t mind seeing Tony pound the sheet out of Janice. Lord I hate that character! (Best line of the episode. Svetlana to Janis: “You are a boring woman.”) Oh yeah! \*\* True, but what, specifically, would he be beating the shit out of her **for**? AFAICR, she hasn’t pulled any of her bullshit lately, and she even helped him out (for a price) by giving info about Ralphie’s sexual proclivities. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/33 "2002-11-14T02:32:30Z")
> [@](#): > > True, but what, specifically, would he be beating the shit out of her for? AFAICR, she hasn’t pulled any of her bullshit lately, and she even helped him out (for a price) by giving info about Ralphie’s sexual proclivities. You are correct, of course. But I can still hope. ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/34 "2002-11-14T04:02:33Z")
I don’t think Tony will confront Carmella. I think he was a bit turned on by how she went about it, placing the nail by his keys. She’s a smart broad. It could have made up for her lack of playfullness when he threw the cold water at her in the shower. He can’t really go after her for taking money that he said he didn’t have in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/35 "2002-11-14T04:17:43Z")
I liked two nice touches at the end of the episode. 1. Tony waking up alone, and then staggering out into the harsh sunlight. 2. Tony looking at the picture of the murdered stripper taped to the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/36 "2002-11-14T06:55:04Z")
I reckoned Ralph having the stable burned down was inspired by Tony’s Oh-BTW-I’m-seeing-your-ex-GF (Valentina). Ralph knew how Tony loved the horse, and must have known that pressing his ‘the horse was just an investment’ angle would enrage Tony. I was getting to like Joe Pantoliano’s portrayal of Ralphi. It almost rivaled his part as the pimp Guido in [Risky Business](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0086200) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/37 "2002-11-14T07:27:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corbomite \* > \*\*I reckoned Ralph having the stable burned down was inspired by Tony’s Oh-BTW-I’m-seeing-your-ex-GF (Valentina). Ralph knew how Tony loved the horse, and must have known that pressing his ‘the horse was just an investment’ angle would enrage Tony. \*\* Some people on the Sopranos message board think the fire had already been planned before Tony’s confession. Early on, Uncle Junior spooks Tony by claiming that someone who’s been dead for years visited him in the hospital. Then he clarifies that he meant that guy’s son, with the same name, and the scare is over. Except, as these people say, the son (I should replay the episode and find the name) is the same guy who was hired to torch Artie Bucco’s restaurant. And _just happened_ to be in town right before the stables burned. Friend thinks Ralphie set the fire, or at any rate hired it done, on the grounds that, “Why would he be so defensive if he didn’t have something to defend?” Mr. Rilch insists it was Paulie. I’m coming down more on Friend’s side, but I’m not going to spend any more time verifying or discrediting. It’ll be more fun to simply watch and see how it plays out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/38 "2002-11-14T07:48:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > \*\* > Early on, Uncle Junior spooks Tony by claiming that someone who’s been dead for years visited him in the hospital. Then he clarifies that he meant that guy’s son, with the same name, and the scare is over. Except, as these people say, the son (I should replay the episode and find the name) is the same guy who was hired to torch Artie Bucco’s restaurant. And _just happened_ to be in town right before the stables burned. > \*\* Of course it’s quite possible that Uncle Junior _is_ suffering from dementia - at least some of the time. A RL similar case - and clearly an inspiration for the writers is that of Vincent “Chin” Gigante. [Read all about it](http://echo.forensicpanel.com/1997/9/1/vincentgigantes.html) (even if you just read the captionized quotes) Also note in this ep how Carmella (Edie Falco) is in-the-know about Artie’s (John Ventimiglia) suicide attempt – wondering if he’s banging the french girl (sister of the guy who swindled him…) – and they exchange a friendly wave. The two of them are in the play 'Frankie and Johnny (and Le Claire de Lune) - (I believe it’s on-broadway and it has been running a few months) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249/39 "2002-11-14T08:34:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corbomite \* > \*\* > > Of course it’s quite possible that Uncle Junior _is_ suffering from dementia - at least some of the time.\*\* Well, that did cross my mind—that his saying “No, his son” might have been a quick save. You just never know, with this show, what details are going to be important as the story progresses. For much of the third season, I was convinced that Big Pussy had only been killed in Tony’s dream (watch the episode again! He’s on a boat between the times that he’s puking his guts out in the bathroom?) until Paulie said, “I’d kill him again if I could.” Barring that, though, I thought there was a sliver of plausibility for Pussy’s turning up again (not in a dream sequence). \*\* > [@](#): > > A RL similar case - and clearly an inspiration for the writers is that of Vincent “Chin” Gigante. > > [Read all about it](http://echo.forensicpanel.com/1997/9/1/vincentgigantes.html) > (even if you just read the captionized quotes) > \*\* Thanks! I Googled him and found a few mentions, but no details about his fake dementia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sopranos-11-10-holy-spoilers/136249.md?page=1)