# The "Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone" phenomenon: other books/films with two names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 7, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000 "2001-11-07T14:21:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/1 "2001-11-07T14:21:21Z")
After starting [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=97619) (about the fact that the first Potter book is called _Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone_ in Britain and _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone_ in the United States), it struck me that this surely can’t be the only time this has happened. Does anybody know if there are any other, popular books or movies that got different names in the US and the UK for marketing reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Yondan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/278dde/32.png) [@Yondan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yondan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/2 "2001-11-07T14:31:00Z")
Well, this doesn’t apply to the UK alone, but I know that that the film released in the US as “the Professional” with Jean Reno and Natalie Portman was released in other countries as “Leon.” The “Leon” version also included scenes cut from the American release. IMHO, the film was much better intact. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/3 "2001-11-07T14:49:54Z")
Well, IIRC, one would be _Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me_, if only because “shagged” is almost the equivalent of “fucked” in the UK and it was considered inappropriate to have on advertisements…I don’t recall what they changed the name to. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/4 "2001-11-07T14:51:07Z")
Lots of Agatha Christie’s books had/have different titles in the US than in the UK. British MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS became (inexplicably, to me) MURDER ON THE CALAIS COACH in the US. And 4:50 FROM PADDINGTON became WHAT MRS McGILLICUDDY SAW! And we won’t mention AND THEN THERE WERE NONE (although the British play version was called TEN LITTLE INDIANS… has the British book title been changed?) ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/5 "2001-11-07T14:53:00Z")
The _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_ were called the _Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles_ in Europe. Although I can understand the reasoning, I’m not sure this made things any better. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/6 "2001-11-07T14:55:13Z")
One of my favorite movies [A Matter of Life and Death](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0038733) was called “_Stairway to Heaven_” in the States. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/7 "2001-11-07T15:38:52Z")
It happened fairly often up through the 60s. Lots of U.S. movie titles were unacceptable for Britain and vice versa. Leslie Halliwell has a long article on the changes in his “Film Encyclopedia.” Those I can recall: “Damn Yankees!” (U.S.) became “Whatever Lola Wants.” “Scudda Hoo! Scudda Hey!” (which doesn’t make much sense even for U.S. viewers) was changed to “Summer Lightning” for Britain. “Hallalulah, I’m a Bum” in the U.S. was changed to “Hallalulah, I’m a Tramp” in Britain, since “bum” has a different meaning there. “I am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang” was shortened to “I am a Fugitive.” “The Fortune Cookies” in the U.S. became “Meet Whiplash Willie.” ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/8 "2001-11-07T16:00:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WordMan \* > \*\*Well, IIRC, one would be _Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me_, if only because “shagged” is almost the equivalent of “fucked” in the UK and it was considered inappropriate to have on advertisements…I don’t recall what they changed the name to. \*\* On the posters I saw in London it said **Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me** ---
**Author:** ![Skijumper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3e96dc/32.png) [@Skijumper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skijumper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/9 "2001-11-07T16:58:31Z")
IIRC, ‘Heathers’ was released as ‘Lethal Attraction’ in some countries outside of the US. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/10 "2001-11-07T17:19:28Z")
[IMDb](http://www.imdb.com) keeps up with alternate titles on the “Main Details” page for each film, under the heading “Also Known As.” There is no mention there for the above-mentioned alternates for _Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me_ or _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_. _Lethal Attraction_ is given as a working title for _Heathers_, not a foreign title. I confess that I didn’t look up every title already mentioned, those just piqued my interest. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/11 "2001-11-07T17:47:37Z")
**KneadToKnow** , I don’t recall the _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_ film title being changed, but the “Hero Turtles” variant was used on the TV cartoons (and nauseating quantities of associated merchandise), UK broadcasting standards people having determined that Japanese assassins were unsuitable for presentation to young children. Although the title of the film was not changed in the UK, some of the promotional material for _Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me_ coyly referred to _Austin Powers 2_ or “the new Austin Powers movie”. Some transatlantic title changes are discussed in [this article](http://www.ansible.demon.co.uk/writing/sfx/sfx081.html). ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/12 "2001-11-07T18:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > **…British MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS became (inexplicably, to me) MURDER ON THE CALAIS COACH in the US…** I remember seeing it in the theatres as ‘Orient Express’. ---
**Author:** ![Spritle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Spritle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spritle)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/13 "2001-11-07T18:39:21Z")
This threw me for a loop… US - Waking Ned Devine UK - Waking Ned Is is last name so insignificant? The best I could guess is that there was some movie in England dealing with a Ned Devine and there was concern that this WND might cause confusion so WN was used. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/14 "2001-11-07T20:07:12Z")
Well for movies Enceno Man was called California Man in Europe when I was there. Clive Barker’s Books of blood 1-3 are called the same but 4-6 are called something different in the States. There are a couple of album names that have been changed too I just can’t think of any off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/15 "2001-11-07T21:36:03Z")
Thios virtually _always_ happens when movies go to different countries. When I was a kid, the magazine **Famous Monsters of Filmland** had a reular feature about name changes when films go to different countries. Often it happens because an American title is untranslateable. The Bond film **The Living Daylights** had completely different titles elsewhere in the world. Similarly, the French film released in the US as **Pardon mon Affaire** had an untranslateable French title. It’s more reasonable, I think, to ask about changes in titles of films that go to different countries that speak the _same_ language. For reasons not clear to me, the “Quatermass” series in Britain was completely retitled in the US: UK: The Quatermass Xperiment (sic) US: The Creeping Unknown UK: Quatermass 2 (this was before they used Roman Numerals) US: Enemy from Space UK: Quatermass and the Pit US: Five Million Years to Earth (I think the fourth film, The Quatermass Conclusion, had the same title in both places. But it was an awful film.) I’m sure there are _tons_ of other examples. Title changes seem to be the rule, rather than the exception. I’m still annoyed that they changed the title of both the book and of the film of the first Harry Potter story. It implies that Americans are too unread or too stupid to understand the implications of “Philosopher’s Stone”. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/16 "2001-11-07T23:58:06Z")
A recent example was the British “The Pope Must Die!” which was changed for American release into “The Pope Must Diet!”, which only made a small amount of sense (Robbie Coltrane is overweight, but that’s about it). Still the original title was considered inappropriate after the assassination attempt on John Paul II. Here are a few of the better-known films on Halliwell’s list of changes. The U.S. title is listed first. Jim Thorpe, All American ---- Man of Bronze Abe Lincoln in Illinois ---- Spirit of the People Buck Privates (Abbott and Costello) – Rookies Take Me Out to the Ball Game ---- Everyone’s Cheering The Bachelor and the Bobby Soxer ---- Bachelor Knight Sons of the Desert (Laurel and Hardy) ---- Fraternally Yours Angels in the Outfield ---- Angels and the Pirates Never Give a Sucker an Even Break ---- What a Man The Bank Dick ---- The Bank Detective Summer Stock – If You Feel Like Singing The Magnificent Yankee ---- The Man with Thirty Sons Royal Wedding ---- Wedding Bells I Was A Male War Bride ---- You Can’t Sleep Here Any Wednesday ---- Bachelor Girl Apartment Public Enemy ---- Enemies of the Public Public Enemy’s Wife ---- G-Man’s Wife (she must have played around) Anything Goes (Bing Crosby) – Tops is the Limit State of the Union — The World and His Wife Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein ---- Abbot and Costello Meet the Ghost Holiday — Free to Live (also Unconventional Linda) The Whole Town’s Talking ---- Passport to Fame Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter ---- Oh! For a Man Teenage Caveman ---- Out of the Darkness Miracle on 34th Street ---- The Big Heart Experiment in Terror ---- The Grip of Fear The following were British films that chance to the U.S. title. U.S. is still on the right. Having a Wild Weekend (the Dave Clark Five) — Catch Us If You Can Damn the Defiant! ---- HMS Defiant African Fury ---- Cry the Beloved Country East of Shanghai ---- Rich and Strange (an early Hitchcock) The Detective ---- Father Brown Curse of the Demon ---- Night of the Demon Die, Die, My Darling ---- Fanatic The Second Best Secret Agent in the Whole Wide World ---- Licensed to Kill A Yank in London ---- I Live in Grosvenor Square Tight Little Island ---- Whiskey Galore House of Fright ---- The Two Faces of Dr. Jekyll At Dawn We Die ---- Tomorrow We Live The Playgirl and the War Minister (to cash in on the Profumo scandal) ---- The Amorous Prawn Man with a Million ---- The Million Pound Note There are many more listed. Generally, the practice was quite common for many years. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/17 "2001-11-08T00:00:22Z")
Oops. Got confused. The U.S. title is on the left throughout. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/18 "2001-11-08T01:09:55Z")
As another more recent example, I believe _The Ref_ (in which burglar Denis Leary holds Kevin Spacey’s family at gunpoint) was released in the UK as _Hostile Hostages._ I got that tidbit from a local video store; any UKers able to confirm? ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/19 "2001-11-08T08:00:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > [BThere is no mention there for the above-mentioned alternates for _Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me_ or _Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles_. \*\* Appearantly, _Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles_ was the European (at least UK, Germany and Sweden, as far as I know) name for the cartoon, the toy line and the computer games, but not the live action movie. Bizarrely, the follow-ups to the live action movie (II and III) _were_ called _Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles_, as these posters show: [http://www.seriesam.com/cgi-bin/seek?seek=Teenage+Mutant+Her](http://www.seriesam.com/cgi-bin/seek?seek=Teenage+Mutant+Her) Why? Because the word ‘ninja’ was deemed too violent and too offensive for the delicate little flower known as the average European… > **[Amazon.de: Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles: Kinder & Familie](https://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/290478/ref=br_bx_34/302-7428882-1418441)** > > Online-Einkauf von Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles mit großartigem Angebot im Kinder & Familie Shop. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000/20 "2001-11-08T13:20:28Z")
Me: \<\< British MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS became (inexplicably, to me) MURDER ON THE CALAIS COACH in the US \>\> Screech-owl: \<\< I remember seeing it in the theatres as ‘Orient Express’. \>\> Sorry if I was unclear, I was talking about the book titles, not the movie titles. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorcerers-philosophers-stone-phenomenon-other-books-films-with-two-names/92000.md?page=2)