# The sorry state of British politics (Anti-semitism and racism edition) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 5, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983 "2016-05-05T13:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/21 "2016-05-05T15:45:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Overall it’s been a very depressing campaign. The unbelievably racist and fearmongering campaign headed by Zac Goldsmtih, Boris Johnson and David Cameron ensured that any thoughts I had of taking Goldsmith seriously as a Mayoral candidate were utterly eradicated. Khan’s campaign was better but I remain unconvinced that Khan is Mayoral material; he’s come across as petty, parochial and smarmy at several points, and I haven’t seen anything to suggest I can trust him. > > Some of the other options are worse, of course: the BNP and UKIP are utterly unappealing for a variety of reasons, Britain First are basically a group of angry men who like to shout at Muslims led by an angry man whose main qualification is experience of shouting at Muslims, and I wouldn’t piss on George Galloway if he were on fire, the odious git that he is. > > So that leave the Lib Dems, Greens, a few assorted fringe parties and one independent who claims to be a Polish prince. Anyone have any views on the Women’s Equality Party? I hear Sandi Toksvig is a supporter… That’s a fair summary, although I’ve never picked the smarmy thing up from Khan that many others have. I think the WEP is a fair-ish shout for a “First Do No Harm/Plague On All Your Houses” vote. But I’m going to vote Kahn because I couldn’t bear it if the lesson the Tories take from the Goldsmith campaign was “we just weren’t racist enough”. I want Goldsmith electorally smashed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/22 "2016-05-05T16:01:17Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > I don’t agree with the idea Israel should be “wiped from the map” - trying to reverse history is a fool’s game. However it does of course exist by virtue of the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians - a process that is still continuing today, albeit on a smaller scale. Calling for a (total) reversal of that situation, whilst totally impractical and unhelpful is not inherently antisemitic. Your statement is grossly ignorant of the situation. There more “Palestinians” living in “Palestine” now than there were when Israel was founded. I’d recommend reading up on the situation before making such foolish statements. That said, thank you for making it clear that you think it is not “inherently antisemitic” to call for the ethnic cleansing of roughly six million Jews. Also, before you get upset, no I don’t think you’re an anti-Semite or dumb. You just made a dumb statement that was grossly ignorant of the situation, insulted both the Palestinians and the Israelis and showed little understanding of the history of the region or the history of anti-Semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/23 "2016-05-05T16:03:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ethnic cleansing and Israel is probably a hijack and off topic, so I apologize for adding onto it. Well, this is about MP who did in fact call for an ethnic cleansing of Jews and also during polls on Facebook would call on her followers with cries of “the Jews are rallying”. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/24 "2016-05-05T16:12:45Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > That’s a fair summary, although I’ve never picked the smarmy thing up from Khan that many others have. Nor have I and I know him! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/25 "2016-05-05T16:17:40Z")
Sure what about Gerry Adams dropping n-bombs on Twitter? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/26 "2016-05-05T16:19:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Your statement is grossly ignorant of the situation. There more “Palestinians” living in “Palestine” now than there were when Israel was founded. I’d recommend reading up on the situation before making such foolish statements. > > That said, thank you for making it clear that you think it is not “inherently antisemitic” to call for the ethnic cleansing of roughly six million Jews. > > Also, before you get upset, no I don’t think you’re an anti-Semite or dumb. > > You just made a dumb statement that was grossly ignorant of the situation, insulted both the Palestinians and the Israelis and showed little understanding of the history of the region or the history of anti-Semitism. I am well-aware of the situation anc I’m not really sure of the point of your post other than to be insulting. Of course there are more Palestinians in Palestine now, it’s called population increase. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make as the majority of those are displaced or descendants of displaced people - either those displaced from the borders of Israel to the West Bank and Gaza, those who were internally displaced within the borders of Israel or those who have been subsequently displaced. I’ve stated why I didn’t think the statements were inherently antisemitic, even if they were a folly previously, I see no need to do so again. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/27 "2016-05-05T16:39:01Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Sure what about Gerry Adams dropping n-bombs on Twitter? If those are the worst bombs he’s dropping it’s still an improvement over past behaviour… Sorry, but I just had to…😃 ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/28 "2016-05-05T16:40:16Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > I am well-aware of the situation anc I’m not really sure of the point of your post other than to be insulting. > > Of course there are more Palestinians in Palestine now, it’s called population increase. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make as the majority of those are displaced or descendants of displaced people - either those displaced from the borders of Israel to the West Bank and Gaza, those who were internally displaced within the borders of Israel or those who have been subsequently displaced. > > I’ve stated why I didn’t think the statements were inherently antisemitic, even if they were a folly previously, I see no need to do so again. because population increase is antithetical to “ethnic cleansing,” as Serbia showed us, and its antithetical to genocide, as The Holocaust (it will forever be capitalized) showed us. Honestly, Muslim populations and communities need to get over “Palestine.” Muslim majorities exist in dozens of other countries, as do Muslim holy sites. Boo effin hoo if someone else has Jerusalem. They have Mecca, Medina, Qom, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/29 "2016-05-05T16:40:26Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > I am well-aware of the situation anc I’m not really sure of the point of your post other than to be insulting. > > Of course there are more Palestinians in Palestine now, it’s called population increase. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make as the majority of those are displaced or descendants of displaced people - either those displaced from the borders of Israel to the West Bank and Gaza, those who were internally displaced within the borders of Israel or those who have been subsequently displaced. > > I’ve stated why I didn’t think the statements were inherently antisemitic, even if they were a folly previously, I see no need to do so again. I wasn’t insulting you. I merely said your statement was grossly ignorant of the history of the situation. As to your bottom statement, yes I’m aware you see nothing “inherently anti-Semitic” in calling for the ethnic cleansing of six million Jews. Again, I find that claim moronic think the reasons why that claim is stupid are self-evident and see no reason to explain why. However, saying you made a dumb statement that’s ignorant of the history of anti-Semitism is not the same as calling you an anti-Semite or stupid, so you shouldn’t be defensive about it. It should be noted Ms. Shah’s statements about her FB post weren’t nearly as idiotic. She apologized without reservation and in my opinion should be forgiven. Livingston of course is a different story with a much longer history of making extreme statements about Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/30 "2016-05-05T16:46:57Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Nor have I and I know him! Well, that’s media coverage for you. I will defer to your greater knowledge, although it’s all moot now because I’ve already voted. Mr Khan got my second place vote as a sop against Goldsmith; I went with Caroline Pidgeon as a first choice given my views on the other alternatives, and threw a bone to the Greens on the General Assembly. Hey **DerekMichaels00** - we’re relocating you and everyone else in your city to Serbia and giving all your stuff to the Native Americans. I’m sure you’ll get over it quickly as there are white Christian majorities in lots of other countries. Boo fucking hoo indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/31 "2016-05-05T17:14:31Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Honestly, Muslim populations and communities need to get over “Palestine.” Muslim majorities exist in dozens of other countries, as do Muslim holy sites. Boo effin hoo if someone else has Jerusalem. They have Mecca, Medina, Qom, etc. The conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians is a conflict over national identity not religion. You’ll notice quite a few Palestinian Christians who have no problem with chanting “Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/32 "2016-05-05T20:40:04Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > This episode epitomizes why I oppose Syrian Muslim refugees here. America doesn’t need antiSemitism mainstreamed like in Europe because of mass Muslim immigration. > > Tories should use this and raise solidarity against Islamists in the next election. And maybe Labour needs a new Blair. Labour needs a new Aneurin Bevan. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/33 "2016-05-05T20:57:12Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians is a conflict over national identity not religion. You’ll notice quite a few Palestinian Christians who have no problem with chanting “Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!” “Palestine” IS an Islamic cause; if the dome of the rock weren’t there, would they care? The Palestinians’ first leader was a Mufti, and when the UN was debating, the head of the Egyptian delegation to the United Nations General Assembly, Muhammad Hussein Heykal Pasha, said, “the lives of 1,000,000 Jews in Moslem countries would be jeopardized by the establishment of a Jewish state.” Not in Arab countries exclusively, but Moslem . Also, why is sentiment so far and detached from I/P in places like Southeastrn Asia so uniform? Like Bangladesh and Pakistan lack Israel relations? And you can see on [Memri.org](http://Memri.org) that their countries have anti-Semitic conspiracy propaganda on their mainstream media/society. The only reason non-Muslim Palestinian Arabs go along with it is the same reason Cruz got booed at IDC: even non-Muslims are so steeped in Islamist ideas that flood those societies that they take after them. That was something they also did as dhimmis in the Caliphates. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/34 "2016-05-05T23:07:32Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Sure what about Gerry Adams dropping n-bombs on Twitter? Strictly American here, and clearly not so much in touch with the British political situation, but I had no idea Adams (or the IRA) was even relevant anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/35 "2016-05-05T23:43:17Z")
When my mother, who lives in England, came to visit last year, she was commenting at one point about the state of political discourse. “It’s so much better here in Australia!”, she said. Ever since then I’ve been pretty much assuming British politics must be about two steps from the abyss. Maybe just one… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/36 "2016-05-06T00:28:02Z")
It’s mildly comforting that the American shitshow isn’t the only one, anyway. (If I was Corbyn, I’d try to stay out of the anti-Semitic thing too. There’s nothing to be gained by getting involved. It certainly wouldn’t make him look anymore statesmanlike.) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/37 "2016-05-06T03:30:45Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You are right it was a debate. With views on all sides. > > Much of it focused on how you chose to interpret the Haavara Areement: > [Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement) > > I saw the debate as a reasonably honest thrashing out. You read that right. there is never a moral equivalence between trying to save your own (what the Jews sought to do) and disrupt the boycott, versus those like the Germans simply doing things out of convenience, and them knowing where it led. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/38 "2016-05-06T04:13:53Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Sure what about Gerry Adams dropping n-bombs on Twitter? I imagine this is tongue-in-cheek, and you understand [what he meant](http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/gerry-adams-apologises-for-django-unchained-n-word-tweet-1.2632112). He’s hardly the first Irishman to make the comparison. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Strictly American here, and clearly not so much in touch with the British political situation, but I had no idea Adams (or the IRA) was even relevant anymore. Gerry Adams is in the Republic parliament now. He’s still the leader of Sinn Féin, which is represented in the assemblies, and throughout local government, on both sides of the border in Ireland, and in the Northern Ireland Executive; also, at Westminster (by empty seats), and in the European Parliament. So, not so much in the news here, with the peace holding, but certainly a relevant political figure in Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/39 "2016-05-06T08:37:50Z")
In Scotland the SNP will now have to govern as a minority government - which isn’t all that unexpected really. Much less expected is that the Tories are now the largest opposition party! What is happening, I don’t even… ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/40 "2016-05-06T08:43:08Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Well, that’s media coverage for you. I will defer to your greater knowledge, although it’s all moot now because I’ve already voted. Mr Khan got my second place vote as a sop against Goldsmith; I went with Caroline Pidgeon as a first choice given my views on the other alternatives, and threw a bone to the Greens on the General Assembly. Seems a decent spread bet 😃 Fwiw, I don’t believe Khan has _side_ to him, he’ll be politically expedient but he doesn’t personalise or smear people. He is a decent type imo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983.md?page=3)