# The sorry state of British politics (Anti-semitism and racism edition) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 5, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983 "2016-05-05T13:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/41 "2016-05-06T09:12:25Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I imagine this is tongue-in-cheek, and you understand [what he meant](http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/gerry-adams-apologises-for-django-unchained-n-word-tweet-1.2632112). He’s hardly the first Irishman to make the comparison. There was that line from “The Commitments” (reproduced here in the sanitized film version): > [@](#): > > Do you not get it, lads? The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I’m black and I’m proud. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/42 "2016-05-06T13:20:07Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > In Scotland the SNP will now have to govern as a minority government - which isn’t all that unexpected really. Much less expected is that the Tories are now the largest opposition party! What is happening, I don’t even… The Tories are up because they took an uncompromising pro-Union line and won over voters who think that defending the referendum result is the most important issue in Scotland right now. Labour are down because they foolishly believed the election was about the powers and policies of devolved government, and because they took Scots’ claim to be more left-wing than England at face value. In fact the electorate weren’t that interested in health, land ownership or education and certainly didn’t want their taxes to go up to pay for anti-austerity measures. I think, but would have to see results, that the SNP have lost a little on the left to the Greens (but not Labour) because some people on the left have noticed the gap between what the SNP say about austerity and what they actually do. So their coalition isn’t quite as broad as it used to be, but still plenty big enough to be going on with. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/43 "2016-05-06T14:13:59Z")
Early results suggest Khan is way out in front of Goldsmith thus far with 30-50% of votes counted, and the Conservatives are falling behind in four of the six London Assembly seats they hold. Both Jeremy Corbyn and “senior Conservative politician Andrew Boff” (as labelled by the BBC) attribute the weak Tory showing to the negative campaign strategy. > [@Corbyn](#): > > "This vile campaign run by the Tories, the way they’ve tried to smear Sadiq Khan, the methods they’ve used and the language they’ve used, has had a very big effect in exactly the way they didn’t want. > > “So many people are just revolted by what was said about Sadiq yesterday they came out and voted for us.” > [@Boff](#): > > "I was supportive of the whole campaign apart from one element and that one was where it seemed to attribute radical tendencies to people of orthodox religious views. > > “I think that is a complete misunderstanding of the patchwork of faiths there are in London, and has the potential to alienate people.” Unsurprisingly, [some writers of Daily Mail comments](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3576676/Counting-begins-London-Sadiq-Khan-looks-likely-City-Hall-senior-Tories-blast-Zac-Goldsmith-s-divisive-campaign.html) are losing their shit at the prospect of a Khan win. > [@](#): > > London has fallen! > [@](#): > > Seal off London, then burn it to the ground. > [@](#): > > dont blame zac, its not his fault there are not enough british people living in london > [@](#): > > London is the capital of OUR christian country!! our ancestors built it fought for it and did so willingly for king/queen and country!! Now i suggest YOU shut up or leave !!! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/44 "2016-05-06T14:43:21Z")
…and now the BBC are reporting Goldsmith with 51% of the votes counted thus far to Khan’s 26%. Make up your fucking minds. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/45 "2016-05-06T15:51:21Z")
That’s something I’ve been warning Democrats gleeful about changing demographics about. What happens if some of your coalition is very vocal about hating another part of your coalition? That’s what a lot of European left parties are having to deal with. Have Jewish voters swung to the right parties yet in Britain? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/46 "2016-05-06T16:09:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …and now the BBC are reporting Goldsmith with 51% of the votes counted thus far to Khan’s 26%. > > Make up your fucking minds. That’s a screw-up. With 99.9% verified, Khan is leading 44.0 to 35.5%. There will have to be a run-off, but it’s Khan. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/47 "2016-05-06T16:12:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s something I’ve been warning Democrats gleeful about changing demographics about. What happens if some of your coalition is very vocal about hating another part of your coalition? That’s what a lot of European left parties are having to deal with. Have Jewish voters swung to the right parties yet in Britain? Don’t know if they’ve swung to the right but the Jewish Chronicle ran a survey in the last week that showed support for Labour had fallen to 8%. Although I think I’m right in saying it had fallen already between the 2010 and 2015 elections (partly mirroring national trends, to be fair) which may be evidence of a deeper problem than just the recent scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/48 "2016-05-06T18:58:34Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The Tories are up because they took an uncompromising pro-Union line and won over voters who think that defending the referendum result is the most important issue in Scotland right now. It really doesn’t hurt that Ruth is very likeable. I think the rest of your analysis is bang on. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/49 "2016-05-06T19:55:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s something I’ve been warning Democrats gleeful about changing demographics about. What happens if some of your coalition is very vocal about hating another part of your coalition? That’s what a lot of European left parties are having to deal with. Have Jewish voters swung to the right parties yet in Britain? [Why British Jews Voted for Sadiq Khan Through Gritted Teeth - Opinion - Haaretz.com](http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.718288) they have. I agree with you, hence my strong opposition to mass Muslim immigration to the US. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/50 "2016-05-07T14:29:17Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Other Brit-dopers - what’s your take? Labour doesn’t have an anti-semitism problem. Unfortunately though, anyone who does anything to condemn Israel’s actions in the Palestine will be accused of being a nazi/anti-semite/jihadist or whatever, because that’s really the only defence Israel has left. Oh, and Ken Livingstone is an idiot, but he’s always been an idiot. He should have faded into obscurity decades ago, but bloody londoners had to vote him in as mayor and thus give him a new lease of political life. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/51 "2016-05-07T17:39:16Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Labour doesn’t have an anti-semitism problem. Unfortunately though, anyone who does anything to condemn Israel’s actions in the Palestine will be accused of being a nazi/anti-semite/jihadist or whatever, because that’s really the only defence Israel has left. > > Oh, and Ken Livingstone is an idiot, but he’s always been an idiot. He should have faded into obscurity decades ago, but bloody londoners had to vote him in as mayor and thus give him a new lease of political life. Umm… Insisting that Hitler was a Zionist and calling for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Israel goes way beyond “condemning Israel’s actions”. Is your position that there’s nothing anti-Semitic about calling for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Israel? I ask because unless you believe that then what Ms. Shah did(which she to her credit has apologized for without trying to offer an bullshit about “being taken out of context”) then clearly those comments were pretty anti-Semitic. I really find the assertion that it’s impossible to criticize Israel without being accused of anti-Semitism absolutely moronic. It reminds me of the babies on the right here in America who squeal about how they can’t say anything about Obama without being called racists. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/52 "2016-05-07T19:01:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s something I’ve been warning Democrats gleeful about changing demographics about. What happens if some of your coalition is very vocal about hating another part of your coalition? … Humanity being what it is some part of any coalition will always be hating another part of your coalition. Even brothers and sisters. No Sanders fan I but it is of note that the Jewish candidate overwhelmingly won the support of Muslim voters. “Only in America!” But yeah it is to warn America about, what with the Irish coming in, and the Italians, and those Eastern European Jews, and then Mexicans, and all those Asians of _various_ sorts (all having some who hate the others! … you know how much the Pakistanis and the Indians and the Chinese and the Japanese hate each other, don’t you?) How can the country thrive with changing demographics when some of the citizenry hate other parts? I guess you have to have enough of those who don’t, who are willing to work towards finding common ground and being stronger by working together. Yeah, crazy talk, I know. In the U.K.? London to its credit [just elected](http://www.jta.org/2016/05/06/arts-entertainment/sadiq-khan-elected-as-londons-first-muslim-mayor-transcending-labours-anti-semitism-woes) a new mayor who has been very critical of the Labor Party’s tolerance of Jew-hating and who promises to be tough on extremism, the candidate that [_The Jewish News_](http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/opinion-why-sadiq-in-city-hall-could-help-mend-relations-with-labour/) seemed to prefer: Sadiq Khan. And while his party has had shrinking support from the country’s Jews I suspect that when the vote is analyzed he will have turned out to have done better than the average Labor politician among Jews. The mature one in this recent debacle was the Muslim politician, Ms. Shah, who it seems had some self-recognition and showed the ability to grow. Unfortunately her allies did her in. It is possible to be against Israeli policies and very pro-Palestinian without veering into Jew-hating and it is easy veer into Jew hater stereotypes as well and to embrace those whose politics on the matter are informed first by Jew hating because they agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/53 "2016-05-07T19:14:52Z")
heh you want to see scary people should read the comments on the msn reprint of the article saying he won you’d think yall sold London and the uk to ISIS and the us was next … ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/54 "2016-05-07T19:26:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Humanity being what it is some part of any coalition will always be hating another part of your coalition. Even brothers and sisters. > > **No Sanders fan I but it is of note that the Jewish candidate overwhelmingly won the support of Muslim voters.** I’ve seen this claim that Sanders won the overwhelming support of Muslim voters, but I’ve never seen any credible evidence to support the claim they voted for him over Clinton. The closest I’ve seen of evidence of this is the fact that in Michigan he won the city of Dearborn, which has a large Arab Muslim population. However, only about 40% of Dearborn residents are Arab Americans and it’s not even clear if most of Dearborn’s Arab American residents are Muslims. In fact, it’s possible that just as most Arab Americans are Christians, most Arab Americans are Christians or that Christians make up at least 40% of the Dearborn’s Arab population. In fact, a study by CAIR, admittedly from March, showed most Muslim Americans when polled as to who they’d want as President backed Hillary at 46%, followed by 25% for Bernie and 11% who backed Trump and presumably had their heads shoved up their rear ends. [https://www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/13423-cair-super-tuesday-poll-shows-muslim-voters-support-hillary-clinton-concerned-about-islamophobia.html](https://www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/13423-cair-super-tuesday-poll-shows-muslim-voters-support-hillary-clinton-concerned-about-islamophobia.html) > [@](#): > > The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the nation’s largest Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization, today released the results of a six-state “Super Tuesday” poll of almost 2000 Muslim voters indicating that almost half of those voters (46 percent) support Hillary Clinton, followed by Bernie Sanders at 25 percent and 11 percent support for Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/55 "2016-05-07T19:49:27Z")
Meant to drop in [this link](http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/muslim-american-voters-bernie-sanders-irpt/) but your critique is correct … it is a conclusion deduced in a few big leaps from the Dearborn performance. So it may indeed be an overstatement that I am rightly called on (thank you for the catch and my apologies), yet still, Sanders had [more support](http://www.juancole.com/2016/03/more-us-muslims-favor-bernie-sanders-than-do-us-jews.html) among Muslims than among Jews. Which still makes the point. (Although dang 13% of Jews supporting Trump? That high disappoints.) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/56 "2016-05-07T20:06:56Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Meant to drop in [this link](http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/muslim-american-voters-bernie-sanders-irpt/) but your critique is correct … it is a conclusion deduced in a few big leaps from the Dearborn performance. > > So it may indeed be an overstatement that I am rightly called on (thank you for the catch and my apologies), yet still, Sanders had [more support](http://www.juancole.com/2016/03/more-us-muslims-favor-bernie-sanders-than-do-us-jews.html) among Muslims than among Jews. Which still makes the point. (Although dang 13% of Jews supporting Trump? That high disappoints.) No problem. It’s hardly a huge knock and lots of people have made this claim. Also, our only real data on the subject is two months old and things may have changed since then. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/57 "2016-05-08T03:47:37Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > [Why British Jews Voted for Sadiq Khan Through Gritted Teeth - Opinion - Haaretz.com](http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.718288) they have. I agree with you, hence my strong opposition to mass Muslim immigration to the US. Muslims tends to have the biggest hate problems as a community, but it’s not as if Latinos and Asians don’t have racism issues either. California recently had an affirmative action brawl that saw Asians side with Republicans. That’s the problem with a Balkanized coalition: you get these kinds of fractures, which causes defections eventually. The Islamic presence in left-wing bases seems to have not just caused Jews to turn right, but gays and feminists as well to some extent. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/58 "2016-05-08T03:57:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Muslims tends to have the biggest hate problems as a community, but it’s not as if Latinos and Asians don’t have racism issues either. California recently had an affirmative action brawl that saw Asians side with Republicans. That’s the problem with a Balkanized coalition: you get these kinds of fractures, which causes defections eventually. The Islamic presence in left-wing bases seems to have not just caused Jews to turn right, but gays and feminists as well to some extent. worth mentioning tho; the Latinos and Asians’ gripes with some other members of the Democratic coalition is not based in a holy book (and yes, “Palestine” is an Islamic cause, hence why not just Arab Muslims but non-Arab Muslims in places so far flung have a nearly uniform view), and can be healed. Some people thought Latinos would run from Obama in 2008 because of the “black/brown divide”. But that was for naught. I do agree with you, and as a conservative Democrat (now that my stance on one certain other issue casts me out of being “liberal,”) its a little worrisome to see how far identity politics is going, and I can’t help but feel that Dem leaders are whipping ID politics up to get voters to make up for whites who left the Dems from 2009-now. One benefit of Hillary winning big is that she’ll wanna keep her coalition, and work to keep the whites she may gain in the party. She’s only [9 points behind Trump in white voters](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/05/04/rel6b.-.2016.general.pdf) (page 33)…Obama and Kerry lost whites by 20 points. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/59 "2016-05-08T04:09:39Z")
One thing some liberals here on SDMB are right about is that whites don’t want to belong to a whites-only party. White voters prefer to vote based on pocketbook issues or ideology rather than tribal identity. But now we’ve got a party that is no longer conservative but explicitly tribal. So a lot of whites are saying, “no thanks”, me included. If the party just happens to be almost all white because for whatever reason only whites like conservative policies, I can live with that. But I’m not going to be part of a white voters’ interest group party. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983/60 "2016-05-08T04:30:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Muslims tends to have the biggest hate problems as a community, but it’s not as if Latinos and Asians don’t have racism issues either. California recently had an affirmative action brawl that saw Asians side with Republicans. That’s the problem with a Balkanized coalition: you get these kinds of fractures, which causes defections eventually. The Islamic presence in left-wing bases seems to have not just caused Jews to turn right, but gays and feminists as well to some extent. You’re only discussing half of the issue. You can’t leave the party if there’s nowhere else for you to go. Jewish people have at least the Zionism of the Religious Right. But there isn’t really a Republican feminist wing or pro-LGBT wing. The closest are the libertarians, who say they lean left on social matters, but then want all discrimination to be legal, as well as making it where the state doesn’t marry anyone. I’m personally not too worried about the Jewish people who, despite leaning left in every other way, put their racism towards Muslims in front of everything else. Jewish people have never been a large portion of the population. If they want to embrace their own bigotry, they are just setting themselves up to face bigotry. It’s really hard to condemn bigotry towards yourself while being bigoted towards others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-sorry-state-of-british-politics-anti-semitism-and-racism-edition/753983.md?page=4)