# The South Side of Chicago is the "Bad" Part of Town. What are the bad parts of London, Paris, etc.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364 "2010-06-08T00:18:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/41 "2010-06-09T18:16:50Z")
What about Ali G’s “Westside!” Is that the west of London or just the west of Staines? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/42 "2010-06-09T18:27:04Z")
The bad parts of Cape Town are the flat parts, the tony parts are the hills & mountainside. ---
**Author:** ![sittininlab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@sittininlab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sittininlab)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/43 "2010-06-09T19:18:39Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Milwaukee segregated itself in the opposite way as Chicago just down the way. The south side was the “white” side of the town while the north side was the “black” side of town. To this day the South Side (of Milwaukee proper) has a much nicer reputation as a whole. It’s because the Poles attract. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/44 "2010-06-09T19:28:59Z")
The bad parts of Tel Aviv are the south and southeast, including most of Jaffa, with the nexus of badness being the Central Bus Station area; however, many southern neighborhoods (like Neveh Tzeddek and Florintin) have been seriously gentrified in recent years, so the boundaries are not as clear as they used to be. The part by the sea isn’t that great either, but that’s because of the tourists. ---
**Author:** ![dobieman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@dobieman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dobieman)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/45 "2010-06-09T19:46:29Z")
Well, since we are dealing with cosmopolitan cities of the world, here in Fairbanks, Alaska, the south side of town (i.e. from about 19th Ave. on down to the Tanana River) does tend to be the rowdier area. However, if one wishes to indulge in the truly rascally aspects of the area, the nearby city of North Pole is infamous for being a) highly religious, b) highly conservative, and c) the meth lab capital of the Interior. Not sure if there is a connection amongst these three factors. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/46 "2010-06-09T20:11:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The bad parts of Tel Aviv are the south and southeast, including most of Jaffa, with the nexus of badness being the Central Bus Station area; however, many southern neighborhoods (like Neveh Tzeddek and Florintin) have been seriously gentrified in recent years, so the boundaries are not as clear as they used to be. > > The part by the sea isn’t that great either, but that’s because of the tourists. Interesting. What constitutes badness in the Israeli context? I ask only because (a) most of your cities have gone through a _lot_ of development over the past sixty-some years and (b) - well, you’ve got types of crime (terrorism) that we don’t encounter all that often in the States. So, do the bad neighborhoods just have lots of poor people, but fairly well-maintained buildings? Or do they look pretty much like American slums? Or do they tend to get hit by terrorists more often? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/47 "2010-06-09T20:18:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The bad parts of Cape Town are the flat parts, the tony parts are the hills & mountainside. This seems to be a common theme. I wonder why? It makes sense, I guess - if a city was built before modern sanitation, you head to hills to get above the smell. But it’s not good during mudslides. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/48 "2010-06-09T20:22:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The bad parts of Cape Town are the flat parts, the tony parts are the hills & mountainside. That’s broadly-speaking true, though there are some flat parts that are pretty nice - I’m thinking Edgemead/Bothasig, for example, and the below-the-line parts of the Southern Suburbs are actually basically flat. To give the specific compass direction, well, the “bad” parts lie for the most part to the south-east of the city centre. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/49 "2010-06-09T20:34:10Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > The bad part of Newark, NJ is… Newark. Ditto for Gary. ---
**Author:** ![bleach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bleach/32/3106_2.png) [@bleach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bleach)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/50 "2010-06-09T20:54:35Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > What about Ali G’s “Westside!” Is that the west of London or just the west of Staines? I’m not 100% sure what Ali G is referring to, but it’s likely that by saying “Westside!” he’s claiming affiliation with the US West coast, particularly Los Angeles gang culture and rap styles. For example, Tupac Shakur (2Pac, an influential rap artist) used to flash Westside gang signs. There are other rap artists who identify with “Westside” or West coast style, and so “Westside!” evokes their style and attitudes (other examples are Ice Cube, Dr. Dre, Eazy E). My guess is that Ali G shouting “Westside!” is supposed to be funny due to its irony; there’s likely no connection with a UK city (although I could easily be wrong). ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/51 "2010-06-09T23:12:32Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510194), we covered the north side. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/52 "2010-06-10T05:31:12Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > my favorite Ethiopian place in Adams Morgan had a botched muder/successful suicide happen at one of its tables a couple years ago. I still eat there. 😃 And Shaw/Petworth can be very dodggy. I love Meskerem and can’t wait to go back. I think that incident was a fluke. That block of 18th Street is the liveliest spot in the whole District. As for Petworth, I’ve been volunteering at the reopened Sisterspace on Georgia Avenue. They give me change for the parking meter. If DC has all-black areas, it has a considerable black majority, so that isn’t surprising. What DC has that St. Louis doesn’t is plenty of racially integrated areas, especially Adams Morgan, which I’ve always held up as an example of successful integration. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/53 "2010-06-10T05:39:52Z")
> [@senpai71](#): > > These two areas are significantly poorer than the rest of the city and contain the largest concentration of African-Americans in San Francisco (which is, after all, an expensive, **pretty white** city…). :dubious: San Francisco has no ethnic majority, and the single largest ethnic group is Asian. Whites are #2. Agree re: the rest, thought. Bayview-Hunter’s Point is the worst part of the city, although there are probably worse neighborhoods in other parts of the Bay Area. (I’m thinking Richmond in particular.) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/54 "2010-06-10T06:30:09Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Central/South L.A. ? Mentioned in the OP. Except for Skid Row, much of downtown L.A. isn’t especially dangerous, at least not more than a randomly chosen spot north of Market in San Francisco, or somewhere on Manhattan Island. Though like they say about New York, the change from feeling safe and comfortable and happy versus a growing sense of fear can be as little as one block. A lot of the paranoia about urban crime in the U.S. is a suburban construct; you grow up in the suburbs and there’s usually one adult in the family who seems to believe if you dare to walk a block or two in the commercial districts at night–anywhere–you’ll immediately be mugged. Or killed. About 13 years ago I was regularly taking the train through Watts (where I had to change lines), up through South Central and on into downtown–late at night–and never once did I meet with any trouble, or hear of it happening to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/55 "2010-06-10T07:41:36Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > This seems to be a common theme. I wonder why? It makes sense, I guess - if a city was built before modern sanitation, you head to hills to get above the smell. But it’s not good during mudslides. We don’t really get mudslides, but the flat parts have to deal with having been seasonal wetlands and moving sands. > [@ctnguy](#): > > That’s broadly-speaking true, though there are some flat parts that are pretty nice - I’m thinking Edgemead/Bothasig, for example Sorry, my prejudice is showing, nothing in the Northern Suburbs rises to the level of “desirable location” for me. “Not hellholes”, sure, especially for something otherside the _gordyn_, but not in the class of Durbanville or Welgemoed, even. > [@](#): > > , and the below-the-line parts of the Southern Suburbs are actually basically flat. I’m not sure what area you mean here - Plumstead? Marina de Gama? Sure, there are nice bits. You’re right, it was a general rule, and by “flat bits” I did mean the Cape Flats part. > [@](#): > > To give the specific compass direction, well, the “bad” parts lie for the most part to the south-east of the city centre. Yep. And also S-SE. > [@bleach](#): > > I’m not 100% sure what Ali G is referring to, but it’s likely that by saying “Westside!” he’s claiming affiliation with the US West coast, particularly Los Angeles gang culture and rap styles. No, he’s \*mocking \*that, but in character, he’s claiming affiliation with Da West Staines Massiv posse, as opposed to Da East Staines Massiv, their bitter rivals. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/56 "2010-06-10T10:16:41Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > So, do the bad neighborhoods just have lots of poor people, but fairly well-maintained buildings? Or do they look pretty much like American slums? Or do they tend to get hit by terrorists more often? Terrorists generally hit anywhere they want - plenty of attacks have been in poor neighborhoods, while several upscales malls have also been bombed. Basically, attacks tend to take place in tighly-packed commerical areas, regardless of social status. No, bad Israeli neighborhoods are pretty much like bad neighborhoods anywhere else - run-down buildings, grafitti, street crime, the works. I don’t think we have the same massive slums you see in other countries, and by and large they’re still generally safer then comparable neighborhood abroads, but I still wouldn’t want to live there. [Here’s](http://blog.tapuz.co.il/dominolog/images/%7B28D7DCE2-5CE2-4035-8412-DA5720AAAB11%7D.jpg) a representative shot of a downscale Tel Aviv street corner; [here’s](http://blog.tapuz.co.il/dominolog/images/%7B2F7FD577-0B83-4210-88E8-DACCA780EFF3%7D.jpg)another; we also have our share of “[projects](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1022/875307781_5f132cc8fa.jpg?v=0)”. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/57 "2010-06-10T12:57:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sorry, my prejudice is showing, nothing in the Northern Suburbs rises to the level of “desirable location” for me. “Not hellholes”, sure, especially for something otherside the _gordyn_, but not in the class of Durbanville or Welgemoed, even. Fair 'nuff. 😃 > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what area you mean here - Plumstead? Marina de Gama? Sure, there are nice bits. You’re right, it was a general rule, and by “flat bits” I did mean the Cape Flats part. Nah, I’m thinking Rondebosch/Claremont/etc. between the railway line and Kromboom Parkway - they’re just as flat as Athlone etc. to the east. But I take your point; they’re minor exceptions to the general rule. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/58 "2010-06-10T14:45:45Z")
WRT Chicago, I would actually say that the the Austin neighborhood, which is referred to as the “West Side” although it is technically “North”, is the part I would least care to be wandering around on crutches at 3 AM wearing a diamond-studded tiara. Though I have not made an exhaustive exploration of the South Side, the only comparably scary parts I have seen were on the State Street corridor by the now-demolished Robert Taylor Homes. I know there are some very nice upper-middle-class areas on the South Side, such as Beverly and Hyde Park. Similarly, until the Cabrini Green projects were demolished, that area (which is on the North Side, quite close to some VERY wealthy districts) was about as bad as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/59 "2010-06-10T16:10:55Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > The Northwest quadrant is normally viewed as the most desirable. It’s the highest-income quadrant, and it includes a lot of very well-regarded and expensive neighborhoods: Georgetown, Glover Park, Foggy Bottom, Cleveland Park, Dupont Circle, and so on. It’s the safest quadrant, and I’d say that “Upper” Northwest - Tenleytown, AU Park, Spring Valley, Chevy Chase, etc - is safe enough that anyone could walk the streets at any time of day or night without fear. That’s pretty damn safe. You should still keep your eyes open for Deathclaws and Super Mutants, though. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364/60 "2010-06-10T16:19:09Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > WRT Chicago, I would actually say that the the Austin neighborhood, which is referred to as the “West Side” although it is technically “North”, is the part I would least care to be wandering around on crutches at 3 AM wearing a diamond-studded tiara. [You might be surprised.](http://www.publicofficiala.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/chicago_violent_crime_map.png) I agree that parts of the West Side are as bad as parts of the South Side. It’s just the worst parts of the South Side are worse than the worst parts of the West Side, and the bad parts of the South Side are far more extensive geographically than the West Side. That map is from 2005. The last report I saw in the papers detailing Chicago crime (sometime earlier this year) had the most dangerous police beat (unfortunately, I can’t remember the exact metric) as one that is in Greater Grand Crossing, around 75th and Cottage Grove. I personally would have guessed a part of Englewood. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-south-side-of-chicago-is-the-bad-part-of-town-what-are-the-bad-parts-of-london-paris-etc/542364.md?page=4)