# The Southern Poverty Law Center has jumped the shark **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588 "2016-11-04T05:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/102 "2016-11-05T03:10:03Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Since you are the person who wrote the extensive idiocy in your [great Trump coup d’etat argument](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=809149), I am very amused that you think you are capable of insulting someone on this level. And I am amused that you think you have uncovered some hidden dirt on me that you can triumphantly expose to the world, bringing about my downfall. It’s a recent post in the same section of the same message board, for chrissakes. That’s some real sleuthing on your part there! LOL ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/103 "2016-11-05T03:26:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t believe a country should be allowed to kick out citizens who are already there, but they certainly have the right to a) decide who can and can’t enter their country, and b) expect them to accept the cultural values of their new home if they are allowed in. > > If we don’t accept that as a basic right of nations and cultures, then 100 years from now Mecca could very well look like Hong Kong. Yeah, I think in an ideal world we make interesting melting pots (or “tossed salads”–isn’t that the more _au courant_ metaphor?) in some places, while preserving more localized culture in others. I visited Quebec a few years back, and visited three locations: a small town in the countryside where no one spoke English (that was the most fun in some ways since I was the only one in my group who spoke proficient French); Quebec City (still very French culturally); and Montreal (a completely international city). I’m glad a place like Montreal exists, forming 21st century culture on the cutting edge; but I wouldn’t want those other places to lose their traditional francophone character. Similarly, I remember reading that Parisian cuisine was being increasingly seen by “foodies” as kind of a musty mausoleum preserving recipes from the 19th century (or even earlier), and they were much more interested in cities like London or Madrid where the hot chefs were experimenting with brand new creations. But I thought, shouldn’t there be room for both? Isn’t there some value in these classic recipes and cooking techniques that at least at one time were considered the _ne plus ultra_ in international cuisine? Western Europe only has about six percent of the world’s population. China and India \*each \*have three times as many people as are in Western Europe; similarly, the Muslim world has about four times as many people, and sub-Saharan Africa is close to having three times as many people as Western Europe as well. Combined together, all these relatively poor neighbors contain more than 12 times as great a population as Western Europe (not to mention higher fertility rates). If Europeans just throw open the doors and welcome all comers, they will be swamped. Almost nothing of their traditional culture will remain, and the region will just be one big undifferentiated polyglot parade. That would really be a shame, I think. (As it would be for the aforementioned Japan, for that matter.) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/104 "2016-11-05T18:17:48Z")
10000 signatures on the petition! > **[Sign the Petition](https://www.change.org/p/southern-poverty-law-center-remove-maajid-nawaz-and-ayaan-hirsi-ali-from-the-splc-s-list-of-anti-muslim-extremists)** > > Remove Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali from the SPLC's list of anti-Muslim extremists suck it progressives! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/105 "2016-11-06T00:57:59Z")
For those who may be interested, there was an extensive rebuttal of the SPLC’s accusations against Ayaan Hirsi Ali published today by Heather Hastie: > **[Why Ayaan Hirsi Ali Shouldn't be on SPLC's 'Field Guide to Anti-Muslim...](https://www.heatherhastie.com/why-ayann-hirsi-ali-shouldnt-be-on-splcs-field-guide-to-anti-muslim-extremists/)** > > On 25 October the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) released a ‘Field Guide to Anti-Muslim Extremists‘. The guide includes a list of fifteen people, two of whom have caused a great deal of controversy – Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. A Change.org... ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/106 "2016-11-06T01:29:15Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > For those who may be interested, there was an extensive rebuttal of the SPLC’s accusations against Ayaan Hirsi Ali published today by Heather Hastie: > > [http://www.heatherhastie.com/why-ayann-hirsi-ali-shouldnt-be-on-splcs-field-guide-to-anti-muslim-extremists/](http://www.heatherhastie.com/why-ayann-hirsi-ali-shouldnt-be-on-splcs-field-guide-to-anti-muslim-extremists/) They lost me at the part where they go for paragraphs about Obama not saying the magical incantation against islamic fundamentalism. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > 10000 signatures on the petition! > [Petition · Remove Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali from the SPLC's list of anti-Muslim extremists - United States · Change.org](https://www.change.org/p/southern-poverty-law-center-remove-maajid-nawaz-and-ayaan-hirsi-ali-from-the-splc-s-list-of-anti-muslim-extremists) > > suck it progressives! First, to keep things in perspective a recent survey found that 47% of Americas consider themselves progressive or liberal. (about 120 million adults) So I’m not impressed at all with that, more related to surveys like that, an ACLU petition to end bigotry has more than 15,000. Second, the petition is lying right out of the bat. **The ACLU is not silencing the ones they are pointing out** , they are only advising that the media at large do not let get away when they do reach for seeping generalizations against a religion to make their points (if one thinks about it, a lot can still be done to criticize the stupid things that Muslims in power are doing in several nations without needing to reach for sweeping right wing bigoted talking points). What the SPLC is making that list for was to tell the media at large to not let bigoted points go unanswered just because of a minority is making them, it would be like letting the Hispanic supporter of Trump get away with his[Taco trucks in every corner comment.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/taco-trucks-on-every-corner_us_57c8d112e4b078581f127680) Or letting he and others justify the bigoted things Trump has said with no counter. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/107 "2016-11-06T01:38:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So, there is no intention for this list to be a “fatwa” this is a list to put the media on notice to be critical of gross generalization, misinformation and xenophobia. I read that, and I find it ridiculous. Putting people on lists creates generalizations. If you want to stop that, you discuss the things they actually say, not people. There is no reason to list someone specific unless you are saying “don’t listen to these people” rather than “don’t listen to these specific ideas.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/108 "2016-11-06T01:52:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I read that, and I find it ridiculous. Putting people on lists creates generalizations. If you want to stop that, you discuss the things they actually say, not people. > > There is no reason to list someone specific unless you are saying “don’t listen to these people” rather than “don’t listen to these specific ideas.” The point stands, there is nothing that will prevent right wing sources from publishing what they write, and the only bad thing is that others will only counter the sweeping generalizations (I actually do remember that a lot of the so called liberal media will not do this anyhow), that is all, even in the article they pointed out that the ones pointed out by the OP do not belong to a hate group. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/109 "2016-11-06T01:55:06Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And I am amused that you think you have uncovered some hidden dirt on me that you can triumphantly expose to the world, bringing about my downfall. It’s a recent post in the same section of the same message board, for chrissakes. That’s some real sleuthing on your part there! LOL She did nothing of the kind. You attacked her by calling her stupid. She then pointed out that you posted something incredibly stupid, and thus had no room to talk. Ramira may be argumentative and strong-headed, but she has never once come across as stupid. Using her use of English as a way to call her stupid was a low blow. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/110 "2016-11-06T01:58:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The point stands, there is nothing that will prevent right wing sources from publishing what they write, and the only bad thing is that others will only counter the sweeping generalizations (I actually do remember that a lot of the so called liberal media will not do this anyhow), that is all, even in the article they pointed out that the ones pointed out by the OP do not belong to a hate group. I do not see how this refutes anything I said. The point is that, if they want to go after generalizations and such, they need to actually attack the generalizations. By attacking people, they are generalizing, pretending that everything they say is wrong, and that people should ignore them completely. I don’t even have a huge problem with the list. I have a problem with their bullshit justification. You do not need a list of people to do what they are claiming to do. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/111 "2016-11-06T02:18:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > First, to keep things in perspective a recent survey found that 47% of Americas consider themselves progressive or liberal. (about 120 million adults) Half the adult population is liberal? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/112 "2016-11-06T02:26:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I do not see how this refutes anything I said. The point is that, if they want to go after generalizations and such, they need to actually attack the generalizations. You need to read the article then, they did point at them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/113 "2016-11-06T02:30:32Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Half the adult population is liberal? Cite? Again, I said Progressive and Liberal. And I also said close to half, not half. [https://thinkprogress.org/new-poll-america-is-evenly-divided-between-progressives-liberals-and-conservatives-libertarians-fb9493d851f9#.i7j73o9cs](https://thinkprogress.org/new-poll-america-is-evenly-divided-between-progressives-liberals-and-conservatives-libertarians-fb9493d851f9#.i7j73o9cs) > [@](#): > > Two new studies (here and here) conducted by the Progressive Studies Program at the Center for American Progress break down the electorate on a new 5-point scale of political ideology that reflects the primary approaches people ascribe to today. Under this schematic, 34 percent of the country self-identifies as ‘conservative’, 29 percent as ‘moderate’, 15 percent as ‘liberal’, 16 percent as ‘progressive’, and 2 percent as ‘libertarian’. > > After moderates are asked which approach they lean towards, the overall ideological breakdown of the country divides into fairly neat left and right groupings with 47 percent of Americans identifying as progressive or liberal and 48 percent as conservative or libertarian and the rest unsure. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/114 "2016-11-06T02:48:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Ramira may be argumentative and strong-headed, but she has never once come across as stupid. All I can say to that is that clearly MMV. What you are referencing with more positive or at least neutral adjectives is exactly what I am talking about. She lashes out wildly without doing much of anything to support her screeds. Nor does she evince one iota of wit–“humorless” would be an apt descriptor. She falls back on predictable talking points that tend to be awkward fits, at best, for the subject at hand–but she heedlessly and clumsily shoehorns them in anyway. Overall, she presents all the subtlety and nuance of a blindfolded bull in a china shop. In the eyes of this beholder, none of that speaks well for her intelligence or rationality. ETA: Yes, I have said I don’t post on weekends, and here it is the middle of the weekend. But I am hanging out with my in-laws and getting bored. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/115 "2016-11-06T02:58:00Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > For those who may be interested, there was an extensive rebuttal of the SPLC’s accusations against Ayaan Hirsi Ali published today by Heather Hastie: > > [http://www.heatherhastie.com/why-ayann-hirsi-ali-shouldnt-be-on-splcs-field-guide-to-anti-muslim-extremists/](http://www.heatherhastie.com/why-ayann-hirsi-ali-shouldnt-be-on-splcs-field-guide-to-anti-muslim-extremists/) Bunch of more-or-less irrelevant stuff, then, > [@](#): > > As for saying, “violence is inherent in Islam,” that is NOT the same as saying all Muslims are violent, as seems to be the contention of the SPLC. How could it not be? What do they think “inherent” means? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/116 "2016-11-06T03:02:04Z")
That’s easy to explain. Forgiveness of enemies is inherent to Christianity. Right? Do all Christians forgive their enemies? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/117 "2016-11-06T03:03:52Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > That’s easy to explain. Forgiveness of enemies is inherent to Christianity. Right? Certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/118 "2016-11-06T03:06:39Z")
I think the Christians I know would disagree. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/119 "2016-11-06T03:23:04Z")
> **[Forgiving Your Enemies](https://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/CBNTeachingSheets/Pat_Perspective_Jesus_forgiving_enemies.aspx)** > > By Pat Robertson > The 700 Club > Begin to pray actively for your enemy's good. Jesus told us to pray for our enemies and that doing this will help to fill us with love for them. [http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/how-to-forgive-your-enemies-4417](http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/how-to-forgive-your-enemies-4417) [http://faithcapo.com/pages/page.asp?page\_id=349005&programId=234569](http://faithcapo.com/pages/page.asp?page_id=349005&programId=234569) > **[Embracing Faith and Forgiveness In Wake of Violence and Hate](https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2016/06/30/embracing-faith-and-forgiveness-wake-violence-and-hate)** > > Rev. Dr. Betty Deas Clark pastor of Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, S.C., talked about faith and forgiveness last week at Union Chapel. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/120 "2016-11-06T03:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > As for saying, “violence is inherent in Islam,” that is NOT the same as saying all Muslims are violent, as seems to be the contention of the SPLC. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > How could it not be? What do they think “inherent” means? The point is that Islam is an ideology, whereas Muslims are people. This is why “Islamophobia” is such a troublesome word, since it (perhaps deliberately) seeks to conflate the two, equating criticism of the _ideas_ of Islam with racism. But much as both Islamists and the Regressive Left would like it to be so, none of the misogyny and bigotry that permeates much of current Islam should be held above criticism on the basis that people might take offense at their religion is being “disrespected”; people who engage in such criticism are not racists, their number _should_ include all liberals. There certainly _are_ many actual racists, but a better word for the kind of racism that’s directed against all brown-skinned people who look vaguely Middle Eastern would be “Muslimophobia”. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588/121 "2016-11-06T03:38:06Z")
Yes, let’s not forget that the Quran (like Deuteronomy and other portions of the Old Testament that are no longer taken seriously by anyone but a few ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel, although those people do have disproportionate power in the Likud coalition government right now, and that is scary) is in large part a document written about an empire conquering territory around it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-jumped-the-shark/770588.md?page=7)